Camber angles on a slick track-Question?

[Nitroaddict]

Okay - I have a major race coming up at a local track on the weekend of the 30th. I had a race there a few months ago, and nothing i did would stop me from sliding all over the place around the corners. Not everyone had this problem, so it must be my setup.

The track is a semi-fast track with about 17 turns. It is paved with ice smooth blacktop.

My setup is:

52/50 spur gears, 20/23 pinions
gold springs rear, copper in front
4mm RH all around
1degree toe in front, 2 degrees aft.
2degrees neg camber all around
TRC 35shore front, 30shore rear, 26mm all around
OS 15 CV-R mill, with copper hard springs and a shaved clutch of 1/16th inch
Proline protoform stratus 2.1 body
===============================
With the low gearing and extra torque the clutch gives, i am wondering if that isnt causing the oversteer.

Even with me controlling the oversteer, i still have huge amounts of drift which is scrubbing off too much speed in the corners.

Could the problem be with the camber? I am thinking that with the track being so smooth, I'm not getting much bite in the turns, therefor, minimal body roll. Without the body roll, my camber is useless and is causing a smaller contact patch.

Would changing the camber to 0degrees help or hinder me?

 

[FastEddy]

I believe your issue has more to do with the shocks at this point. If you are braking loose and drifting, you need to loosen the suspension a bit. Softer springs. Drifting means everything is busting loose. This is caused by not having enough weight shifting to the inside of a turn. Loosen it up a bit. let the body roll a bit more. If you go to loose in the suspension just the ass end will brake loose but the car will not drift.

If you are using suspension stops give them a bit more working room as well. Limiting the suspension travel to much will cause drifting as well.

 

[Somers Racing]

R/C gas cars (on-road anyway) should droop in the rear more than the front. The front can be a stiff suspension setup but the rear has to be able to move from side to side so the engine can shift to the sides. If you have this setup, the car should not break loose.
Peter

 

[FastEddy]

Thanks for clearing that up, you said it much better than I did.
After re-reading my post I did forget to mention in the rear.:wedgie:

Thanks Somers...

 

[Nitroaddict]

somers - i have the droop set at 1mm greater for the rear than for the front. so that should be okay.

Eddy - i have the shocks almost as loose as i dare, as already the car will bottom out over some of the rougher spots.

My reasoning behind the camber, was that the purpose of camber is to increase the tire contact patch during corner roll, but if my car isnt rolling (due to no bite) then the tire patch isnt increasing.

I will try loosening up the shocks, but like i said, i think it will cause the car to bottom out.

Somers - if i increase the droop substantially, would that in effect cause an increase in inside roll, therby increase outside tire traction, and eliminate this from happening?

 

[Somers Racing]

This is what I have in mind when I setup my car for a lot of turns and high end speed (if you have the room).

set the ride hight at 4mm in the front. (keep in mind that the suspension has to have lots of travel.

set the rear ride hight at 3mm and have max suspension travel.

If you are driving in warm-ups or if you are just practicing, hit some shallow bumps on the road. (all you are wanting here is to simulate the bumps on your local track) if it botoms out adjust very little.
You want to have as much travel and max travel but not having it bottom out.
If you are going to a big race, and the track is very smooth and no pot holes or bumps set it up how I do.

This is my best racing setup that I will give all of you reading.
( I don't race anyone on here so it doesn't matter to much.

(foam tires)
you want the chassis to ride 2mm all around and want the suspension pretty stiff. Use soft tires for this setup so it can make up for the tight suspension.

(rubber tires)
same as foam setup, but the ride hight should be 3mm all around and the suspension should be soft and have max travel without bottoming out. (keep in mind you only want to rest your hand on the car to check the suspension because the car doesn't have as much mass as your body pushing down on the car.)

For all setups have the toe at 1 degree inwards on the front and have the camber at 2 or 3 degrees on the front and back for all the setups.
This works best on all my cars. ( I would go with 3 degrees camber in the front and 1 or 2 in the rear.) Just for your local races, have the rear suspension 1mm lower than the front. This helps traction under lots of acceleration and under braking.
It worked for all my cars, it should for yours to.
If you have more ? you can private mail me if you would like.
Peter
P.S. If you have the ride hight to high, the car will roll to much and you could flip under braking when you turn or turn at high speed.
P.S.S Eddy, its no prob, I knew what you meant, just cleared it up for him.
:beer:

 

[Nitroaddict]

thanks for all the help guys - sounds to me like the droop is gonna be key, which will increase shock travel, which will increase traction, as it will increase roll. i will do some tests this week prior to the race and give you all a follow up

 

[joneser4u]

ever thaught about running a softer compound tire on the rear?and I run about 4 degrees negative camber in the rear, it helps!

 

[Nitroaddict]

jones - the camber issue was exactly the point of this thread - i am already running 2 degrees of neg camber in the rear, and i was concerned that it was hindering rather than helping me. i also run a softer compound in the rear as well.

u would have known this if you would have read my frigging post!. Please stop responding to my questions before reading them, u do it all the time.

 

[joneser4u]

With that smartass reply,I wouldnt offer you my piss if you were on fire and my bladder was about to explode!!!!!!keep doing doughnuts on the track butthead?!

 

[Nitroaddict]

 

[joneser4u]

:idea:

:argue: I'm not much on foams,I like rubber slicks?Is there not a softer than 30shore in foams?Also I run 4 degrees so why should 2degrees be hindering you?

 

[Nitroaddict]

I am thinking that with the track being so smooth, I'm not getting much bite in the turns, therefor, minimal body roll. Without the body roll, my camber is useless and is causing a smaller contact patch.



foams are manditory in my racing circuit, as u would be lapped in a matter of seconds on rubber bands.

 

[joneser4u]

I run a circuit that is pretty smooth and they lay a sugarwater layer down on the tracks apex,I was the talk of the track showing up first with a HPI and second on rubber slicks?I was the only one there on rubber tires!But when the races started they were amazed when my car would enter a turn with screeching tires!Not from broken traction from them sticking to the surface!I won 2 out of 3 heats and the main!I have thought about trying some foams but know very little about them and I have my car tuned exceptionaly well on the rubber tires?Dont foams wear-out faster than rubber tires?

 

[Nitroaddict]

yes - but the difference is night and day. plus, foams dont wear out that bad on groomed surfaces.

 

[Somers Racing]

rubber tires are way more slick than foam tires. Sure they will wear out faster on a poop surface, but on a groomed one like nitro said, they are great.
Well said nitro.
Pete

 

[Nitroaddict]

Originally posted by Somers Racing

Well said nitro.
Pete

thanks - thats what I'm here for, lol.

u know, somers - i think u and i are the only ones here that race TC's - surprising.

 

[Somers Racing]

I race all my cars. The TC3 is a strong car. The only thing is, I have a couple cars. All of them I race. They are all setup for different tracks, and it never changes unless I want a different car to race at a natioal event. They all get a chance to do their magic.
Peter

I'm just glad I could help you out with your car.
regards...