Buying an On-Road

[CSDominion]

I am planning on buying an on-road soon. My MT-2 ST has been a blast, but I think I want an on-road now to add to the collection (and give me something I could try racing with - in Outlaw due to the motor I guess).

I'm looking at the RS4 3 18SS. I guess I like HPI and I really like the 18SS I put in my MT-2. I have a few questions though if anyone would like to give some advice:

The RS4 3 18SS comes with Shaft drive vs belt drive as in some others I've looked at. Which is better and why?

It is recommended to use a "High torque servo for steering" - what classifies "high torque" I can't find the specs on the SX-1 that my MT2 came with, but the radio I'm looking at is the Futoba 2PL 2 (with hopes that I can configure this radio to work with my MT2 as well if thats possible) - http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXENN0** - comes with 2 - S3003 servers (rated at 44 oz-in @ 4.8V or 56.8 oz-in @ 6V) - with 4-aa batteries in the car, that would be 6v - so is 56.8 oz "high torque" or should I look at other options like the S3010 (rated at 72 oz-in @ 4.8V and 90 oz-in @ 6V)?

If I get the set at Tower that has the S3003 and the S3010 - I'd have to get the Futoba 2PH 2 and not get the 10 car programability (unless I bought them all seperate) so I'm not sure what would be best for my use.

Its $5 more for the 2PL 2 with 2-S3003 vers 1 S3003, but if I get the radio plus 1 S3003 I can get the S3010 for an additional $23.90 - or a difference of $18.90. So I guess the bottom line question is - is that amount of extra torque with $18.90 and will I see a difference in turning between the 2?

Wish I had some experience with servos to know how much of a difference these two have and how they compare to the SX-1 that HPI sends with its RTR's

If I'm way off here and not making sense, just tell me to "shut up - noob"
[size=+2][/size]

 

[rossb]

If you like Futaba I would recommend the 3PM FM. It has 10 model memory, ABS, and much more. You can get it at Tower Hobbies with a Futaba 3305 HT Metal gear servo for around $120 minus the current coupon special. The metal gear is important because the servo will hold up better in a crash. I use this servo in my Savage SS. You can use a cheap Futaba S3003 for throttle & brakes. The Hitec HS-635HB is also a good low cost HT steering servo. I use it in my RS4 18ss

Shaft drive is better for a parking lot racer. Belt drive is better for groomed high traction race tracks. If you are going to be doing a lot of serious racing in organized events then you might be better off with a belt car designed for groomed tracks like an R40 (or an expensive Serpent or Mugen) along with a ROAR legal .12 motor. I run mine often in parking lots and sometimes on the track so I went with a shaft RS4 18ss.

The Associated TC3 is also a very good shaft car. The TC3 offers more suspension adjustments than the RS4 does (droop, ackerman, track width, easier front caster and rear toe changes).

 

[CSDominion]

I started a thread in the radio forum and it sort of evolved into the whole plan:

https://www.rcnitrotalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=309252

 

[AC48]

In 1/10 toruing cars high torque steering servos are not needed, but they do help. If you plan on racing it then I suggest getting one, but if you are just running around in parking lots then a standard will be just fine. Anything with 50 oz./in. will be enough, but you can always have more power

 

[sl0eg1n]

you are much better off getting good servos especially ones with metal gears. plastic geared servos will break in a second. they can break easily from hitting a board, divit, etc. last season i went through 3 plastic geared servos. i later realized it was just much better getting a high-end servo because it would cost the same as breaking multiple cheap servos.

Futaba has some decent metal geared servos that go for $40 of you can go digital. i personally run a digital high speed servos for steering and throttle. the torque is high at 6.0V at around 100 oz-in at 0.9 sec. i have a KO Propo PDS- 2363 ICS servo for steering in my Xray FK05. my serpent 710 is setup with a JR Racing DZ8450 for steering and a futaba s9550 for throttle.

 

[CSDominion]

I completed the planning stage, and the RS4 kit is due here on monday, and the other parts (radio, servos, batteries, charger, paint) soon to follow later in the week.

I'm SOOOOO excited

 

[sl0eg1n]

do yourself a big favor and don't go cheap with the radio. a good radio will last you a long time. i suggest the KO propo Helios with PDS2363 servos. the setup will cost you a couple of bills but you won't regret it. when you feel you want to upgrade to a better car you just have to swap the radio setup.

i have the futaba 2PL. it was good for a while until i went FM. too many glitches with AM.

 

[CSDominion]

Thanks for the advice sl0eg1n, but the link I posted shows what I purchased already.

 

[CSDominion]

The car arrived last night - Worked on it for about 3 hours and I'm ready to assemble the shocks now. I love this build so far. Directions are easy to follow and man is it a BLAST!

 

[rossb]

Enjoy, I hope you got extra tires

The Hi-flow airfilter and the primerless race tank are good hopups you should install right away.

 

[CSDominion]

After I tear up the ones that came with it, there are a few foams I'm looking at getting.

Hi-flow filter will be on the list of very soon upgrades. I have one on the MT2 already - I installed everything from the box, so I can have a base to start from. I want to get it broke in and tuned with the stock stuff. God this thing sits LOW! hahaha

Here was day 2: (sorry about the blurry photo - I took it quick this morning)

I now have to wait until monday for my radio/rx/servos to get here

 

[Revo Rancher]

Hey CSD, where is the fuel line pick up fitting on that tank? Is it in the front? On my SS it is in the rear. I wonder if they changed it mid model as a buddy of mine has the 18SS like yours and his is the same as my SS12.

 

[rossb]

His tank is the same as yours, he mounted the tank backwards.

The stock tank sucks, the lines run in a bad way (near the gears) and the plastic output port on the bottom will rub the chassis. The primer will leak and the pickup in the tank is not optimum. The lids on the stock tank and the optional tank are not in the same position so if you cut a tank access hole in your body it may not line up with the new tank. You should upgrade to the optional race tank now along with the hiflow air filter. The race tank is a much better tank. The fuel output is on the top right behind the fuel cap and the pickup in the tank is better. See here (not the best angle, but all I have now):

http://www.rbartick.com/hpi/rs4_31.jpg

If you run foams you need to use a 2 degree offset in the rear. My ride height is set at about 5.5mm. 0 toe in front, -2 toe in rear. -2 camber front and rear. 10 degree front caster. Graphite shock towers, front shock stood up one hole from stock (adjusted on tower), rear shock laid down one hole from stock (adjusted on tower). Stock camber link holes. Still waiting for my graphite deck.

 

[CSDominion]

Yes I mounted the tank backwards as I wasn't comfortable with the location of the fuel lines next to the gears. I will be replacing that tank soon, as well as the filter.

 

[Revo Rancher]

rossb, where did you get the graphite towers? I don't recall seeing those as an HPI upgrade.

And yeah, the stock tank is located in a really goofy position. You really have to play with locating the fuel line to keep it away from the gears. I ended up strapping mine to the roll brace along with the pressure line. I might look into the upgraded tank. I already run the Motor saver filter. Did not have to adjust the needles. Works good.

What clutch set up are running on your SS, ross? I just added the race clutch shoes, using hole #2. Seems to hook up a little better. Next race is Mother's Day so maybe I can sneak out for a quick practice with the guys. Race time itself is too late, but I want to see if it grabs more clutch out of the corners. These guys run outlaw. I can easily catch them on top end but they get me coming out of the turns. I was hoping for a better result with a different clutch set up.

 

[rossb]

I think that the backwards tank will make it difficult to refuel with the body on. The cap opening will be facing the tallest part of the body. I know that I am starting to sound like a broken record, but throw that stock tank in the garbage and get the primerless race tank. It is worlds better than what you have now and it is a cheap mod.

The shock towers are HPI parts. A LHS happened to have them in stock. See here:

http://www.rbartick.com/hpi/rs4_30.jpg

I am still running the stock clutch and even with the red gears (taller gears) it can spin all four foams when accelerating off a turn. The 18ss has a lot of low end torque, you have to be careful when blasting out of a corner.

 

[Revo Rancher]

I couldn't get into HPI Racing USA but got into the europe one. I guess I just never noticed the graphite towers before. I am still waiting for my graphite radio tray, like you are ross.

I'll consider the race tank, too. Seems like a good idea. I already run a fuel filter. A better pick up might help with that end of tank lean running thing.

I can spin all four wheels on hard acceleration out of a corner, too, I just can't seem to get all the power to the diffs sometimes as the stock clutch seems to engage at a high RPM, allowing too much time to go by before getting to full contact. Hard to explain. You would have to see it to understand. A guy with a RTR RS4-3 (now modified) told me that the 12's and 15's are designed that way to give it a slingshot effect, but to get the race clutch for more positive clutch engagement earlier on. All the guys with RTR RS4-3's have either gone to outlaw motors or a .12 race motor including some have bought the SS12 motor. With the race clutch, they are beating the outlaw motored guys in almost every part of the course, especially into and out of the corners. Those .12's really scream!

 

[rossb]

I understand what you are saying about the engagement RPM. My Savage clutch engages at a MUCH lower RPM than the RS4. If I try to slowly accelerate the RS4 from a dead stop I hear the motor revving up a good amount before the car moves. I have not had any issues with this when actually driving and racing around. The bigger motor may be revving up quicker than yours at low RPM. I have not yet felt the need to change out the clutch. Maybe I will in the future.

 

[Revo Rancher]

The HPI race clutch shoe set is adjustable, too. There are three settings. And it uses one long, wrap around spring instead of those little PITA springs.

The one 18SS running with us is faster than all the outlaw guys. I think those guys haven't sorted out their gear ratios yet. And the 18ss is running the stock tires, shocks and springs! The Losi guys can't believe how fast the SS's are with so few mods. And the OFNA, Traxxas (yecchhhh), Associated and Mugen guys are pretty surprised, too. One guy with a VVV is the only guy who can run circles around the rest of us, but heck, he spent at least 700.00. I only paid 109.00 for my ss kit! (hobbypeople screwed up the price when they rang it up!)

 

[rossb]

I have read about that clutch setup on HPI's site. My stock clutch has not given me any problems yet so I did not feel the need to upgrade. So far it seems to be fairly well matched to this motor. We will see what happens during the racing season. I might change my mind.