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Buggy Battery Ratings

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Sro79

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I'm looking at different buggies and I was wondering where the battery ratings come from. One kit will say it requires a 2S battery, a different kit will require 4S. But anybody can just put in whatever they want as far as I know, not like they come with any electronics, so why give the rating? Would a 4S system be too much weight / power for a 2S buggy? Or is it something to do with approved racing set-ups? Really just curious or wondering if I'm missing something.

I'd like to see battery dimension or weight recommendations as I don't believe those are universal.
 
the actual buggy's scale. 1/10 scale is 2 cells not 4 cells. 1/8 scale is 4 cells not 2 cells
 
So what would be the limiting factor if I wanted to put a 4S set-up in a 1/10 buggy? I think ESCs have multiple cell ratings and battery sizes are similar. Are the motor sizes that different or is it a case where the motor would just strip all the gears? I'm actually not looking at doing of this, just find it interesting.
 
The main limiting factor is what the electronics can handle. The ESC and the motor will have maximum voltage ratings that they can handle. For example I could have an ESC that is capable of handling 6S but if my motor can only handle 4S then I'm limited to 4S.

The other limiting factor is the motor mount. 1/10 scale kits are designed to use 540 and 550 sized motors. Most 540 and 550 sized motors can only handle 2S or 3S. 1/8 scale motors can usually handle more but they wont fit in a kit designed to hold a 1/10 scale sized motor without modification. Usually heavy modification. Not only of the motor mount but the drive line too.

If you're a racer there are usually battery limitations depending on whatever class you are racing in. I'm not a racer so I dont know the exact details on that part but like TNT said, typically 1/10 buggy runs 2S and 1/8 runs 4S.
 
One last question, would all 2S batteries be built to roughly the same dimensions? For instance, is there a chance I order a 2S lipo and it won't physically fit in the chassis or are all the manufacturers on the same page. Does the 'ROAR' certified give a guarantee that things will fit or is it just a certification that adds cost.

Just been getting into hobby grade RC stuff this past year. Shocked at the amount of differences just in connectors alone.
 
No to all 2 cells being same size. the sizes can vary. I think the 1/10 scale of 4 cells can be one if you are easy on rc.. it might just snap the axels in half.it can also strip gears as it has just to much power..I run 3 cells on a xxxt G+pro. and thats a drag car so for its 1.7 second runs not counting its slow drive back to lights... 2 turn brushed motor with a 1200 amp esc.... on foams and stainless axels..never blown anything
 
One last question, would all 2S batteries be built to roughly the same dimensions? For instance, is there a chance I order a 2S lipo and it won't physically fit in the chassis or are all the manufacturers on the same page. Does the 'ROAR' certified give a guarantee that things will fit or is it just a certification that adds cost.

Just been getting into hobby grade RC stuff this past year. Shocked at the amount of differences just in connectors alone.
As TNT said, Theyre all different sizes. You need to measure your battery tray and make sure the lipo you're buying will fit. The higher the mAh rating the bigger the pack will be but same size mAh doesn't mean theyre gonna be the same dimensions.

ROAR certified just means that you can using that battery at ROAR sanctioned races.

As for connectors, most people will tell you to go with XT60 orEC3 for 1/10 scale or XT90 or EC5 for 1/8 scale and larger. I happen to like Deans connectors but thats just what I'm used to. Most connectors out there will work.
 
Yeah, the charger I bought uses XT60 connectors, I've decided to buy batteries with banana plugs connections for flexibility but the lipo I bought did come with a deans connector cable and of course the kit I'm currently working on is Tamiya so the included ESC has their own style connector. The other kit I'm getting parts for, the ESC requires soldering. Haven't soldered anything since college and I would say my skills weren't top of the class but I'll get by. Already started buying connectors to terminate my own cables. Also have had the sand off the edge of my servo to get it to fit properly in the kit.

Different conversation but the lack of standards definitely creates a barrier to entry if one is not inclined to modify.

This all started with me buying my son a Traxxas Summit 1/16 for Christmas, I was so impressed with that thing I decided to get into myself. There's something to be said for their closed ecosystem.
 
Yeah, the charger I bought uses XT60 connectors, I've decided to buy batteries with banana plugs connections for flexibility but the lipo I bought did come with a deans connector cable and of course the kit I'm currently working on is Tamiya so the included ESC has their own style connector. The other kit I'm getting parts for, the ESC requires soldering. Haven't soldered anything since college and I would say my skills weren't top of the class but I'll get by. Already started buying connectors to terminate my own cables. Also have had the sand off the edge of my servo to get it to fit properly in the kit.

Different conversation but the lack of standards definitely creates a barrier to entry if one is not inclined to modify.

This all started with me buying my son a Traxxas Summit 1/16 for Christmas, I was so impressed with that thing I decided to get into myself. There's something to be said for their closed ecosystem.
Yeah, this hobby is how I learned to solder...and a whole bunch of ovcerthings I never thought Id need to know lol
 
I'm going to try and hijack my own thread here since I've been getting some good responses.

Could somebody explain this to me, on the HiTec RDX 2 Pro Charger, the default settings are as follows:

Nominal Voltage: 3.7V
Max Charge: 4.2V
Storage Charge: 3.8V

Max charge is just the charge setting, why would charge and storage settings be above nominal? That makes no sense to me. I can override but it seems weird that it's so high. Do you typically reprogram chargers for specific batteries?

Also, I just connected a 2S battery charged to 8.4V to an ESC rated for 7.2V. I assumed it would only charge to 7.4V which I figured would be close enough.

Seems to be working (as is the motor) but the servo is only humming. It only worked a few times before it stopped.

My initial thought was overvoltage but it looks like the voltage output to the RX is regulated by the ESC. Is it correct that the servo gets the same voltage as the RX? My TX shows me the RX voltage, it was never above 6.2V so I would think it's OK.

The servo itself was never connected to anything, so no load. Would it be best practice to set servo limits in the TX before starting to try and operate it, or are they all 'standard'? I think I can do that in my TX, not sure yet. Wondering if I didn't crank the servo too hard one way.

Anyway, any input would be great.
 
I'm going to try and hijack my own thread here since I've been getting some good responses.

Could somebody explain this to me, on the HiTec RDX 2 Pro Charger, the default settings are as follows:

Nominal Voltage: 3.7V
Max Charge: 4.2V
Storage Charge: 3.8V

Max charge is just the charge setting, why would charge and storage settings be above nominal? That makes no sense to me. I can override but it seems weird that it's so high. Do you typically reprogram chargers for specific batteries?

Also, I just connected a 2S battery charged to 8.4V to an ESC rated for 7.2V. I assumed it would only charge to 7.4V which I figured would be close enough.

Seems to be working (as is the motor) but the servo is only humming. It only worked a few times before it stopped.

My initial thought was overvoltage but it looks like the voltage output to the RX is regulated by the ESC. Is it correct that the servo gets the same voltage as the RX? My TX shows me the RX voltage, it was never above 6.2V so I would think it's OK.

The servo itself was never connected to anything, so no load. Would it be best practice to set servo limits in the TX before starting to try and operate it, or are they all 'standard'? I think I can do that in my TX, not sure yet. Wondering if I didn't crank the servo too hard one way.

Anyway, any input would be great.

Ok, Theres a fair amount to unpack here...

Could somebody explain this to me, on the HiTec RDX 2 Pro Charger, the default settings are as follows:

Nominal Voltage: 3.7V
Max Charge: 4.2V
Storage Charge: 3.8V

Max charge is just the charge setting, why would charge and storage settings be above nominal? That makes no sense to me. I can override but it seems weird that it's so high. Do you typically reprogram chargers for specific batteries?

Let me start off by saying that it would be extremely helpful to know the exact make and model of your ESC, motor, servo, and lipo. That being said I can address the questions in generic terms. Also TLDR; Dont change those settings in your LiPo charger. :)

So Nominal voltage is a value assigned to a circuit or system to designate its voltage class conveniently. Nominal voltage is used as a voltage reference to describe batteries, modules, or electrical systems. A LiPo can operate in a range of voltages. for a single LiPo cell that voltage range is 3V/C (3 volts per cell) to 4.2V/C. So some electrical engineering geeks somewhere decided that Lithium Polymer batteries should be designated as 3.7V/C nominal.

4/2V/C is the maximum charge that a LiPo cell can have so thats why your chargers max charge is set to 4.2V. This you do not want to change unless you're using HV (High Voltage) LiPos but thats another conversation altogether. Also just like going over 4.2V/C will damage a cell, Going under 2.6V/C will also damage LiPos. Now there will be some debate about the 2.6V/C. Most people will tell you its 3.2V/C. While it is advisable not to run your ESCs LiPo voltage cut off less than 3V/C (again most people will tell you 3.2V/C). This is due to voltage sag and not wanting the LiPo cells to even get close to that 2.6V/C where they get damaged. I personally run mine at 3V or 3.1V/C cut off. Most people run 3.2V/C or some people even higher.

The 3.8V/C storage charge is just because this is where the aforementioned electrical engineering geeks determined it to be the safest for the cells while sitting unused. You see if you let your lipos set at max charge for more than a few days it begins to degrade the IR (internal resistance) of the cells. Those will also happen if the battery packs sits with to low voltage also.

The higher the IR of the cells the worse your lipo will perform. The IR of your LiPos cells is the life blood of your lipo. The higher the IR of the cells the less the LiPo is capable of and the more "stressed" the cells are. Cells that are stressed to much can actually suffer a catastrophic failure which means that at the very least the cell(s) will swell, Sometimes if they swell to much they can rupture and catch fire. LiPo fires are no joke so heres my best advice I can give you on how to keep protect yourself and you property as much as possible. THIS is what a LiPo fire can look like and bear in mind that the LiPo catching fire here is a small 1500mAh LiPo. If you're doing ground kits then most likely you are using a much larger 5000+mAh LiPo.

First and foremost you need to make sure you are charging your LiPos in your garage or outside and the LiPos should be in a fire proof container. They make "lipo charging bags" but imho theyre a pain in the but and I just charge mine inside an old empty ammo can in a place where theres nothing flammable within at least 2 or 3 feet of your LiPo.

In addition to that precaution never used LiPos with puffed cells and make sure you buy a quality charger that can read IR of your LiPos. Progressive RC makes a stand alone IR dyno tool but its just as expensive as a good charger. I would suggest something like an iCharger and just every time you charge your lipos check your IR readings. If one cell has a signifcantly higher IR than the rest the LiPo is not safe to use. Beware cheap Chinese chargers, even the ones that can read IR. Hitec is a quality brand so you're good there but I'm uncertain if that model reads IR or not.

Also, I just connected a 2S battery charged to 8.4V to an ESC rated for 7.2V. I assumed it would only charge to 7.4V which I figured would be close enough.

This entire sentence doesn't really make sense to me so you may want to restate this if your questions are not answered here. So to start you're saying you hooked an 8.4V (fully charged lipo) up to an ESC rated for 7.2V. ESCs are generally rated in what LiPo cells you can run through them. For example an ESC might be compatible with 2-4S LiPos or 2-6S LiPos. Even if you had an ESC that was only 2S compatible Then it will funtion on 6-8.4V. See why that part doesn't make sense? Second thing is after that statement then it says "I assumed it would only charge to 7.4V" but ESCs dont charge LiPos. So this particular part I can't really address because I'm not sure what you really meant.

Seems to be working (as is the motor) but the servo is only humming. It only worked a few times before it stopped.

My initial thought was overvoltage but it looks like the voltage output to the RX is regulated by the ESC. Is it correct that the servo gets the same voltage as the RX? My TX shows me the RX voltage, it was never above 6.2V so I would think it's OK.

Ok, so as to the part of this question that has to do with whether voltage is regulated by the ESC. The answer to that part is, "yes it does". ESCs have whats called a BEC (Battery Elimination Circuit) built in to them. The BECs job is to take whatever the LiPos voltage is and output an amount common for RXs, servos, and anything else plugged into the RX. This is typically 6V the vast majority of the time. It can sometimes be lower or higher depending on what electronics you're running and wether or not you can control the voltage output of the ESCs built in BEC. Generally you can't control it or may be limited to 2 options. For more control over voltage output for specialized projects an external BEC may be used. Cheap BECs are generally only switchable between 5V and 6V but high quality BECs like the ones made by Castle Creations have all kinds of voltage levels you can pick. External BECs are a tad tricky to wire up though so make sure you watch a good how to vid or make sure you ask here in the forums.

As for why your servo stopped working I couldnt even begin to guess, especially with out knowing all the details about your electronics etc.

I hope this helps. If anything is still unclear or you have more questions let me know :)
 
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Lots of good info here. The set-up looks like this:

-Tamiya Subaru Brat
-Tamiya TBLE-02S ESC
-Motor (silver one Tamiya puts in the kit, not sure).
-Savox SV-0220-MG
-TX Futaba T4GRS
-RX Futaba R304SB
-Battery, gensacearespammers Redline, 2S, 130C, 6000mah, shorty

The reason for the shorty is I have a Kyosho MP10e sitting on the shelf that I want to put together next (saddle set-up). I went overboard with this when I realized how much better RCs have gotten once the 80s. The Tamiya kit was designed for a 7.2V NIMH I believe but I thought I would just use the same lipo battery with an external voltage sensor. Probably should just buy the right battery, I'm already in this deep enough.

The ESC does have an input rating of 6.6 to 7.2V in the manual as opposed to a cell rating, probably how they did it back in the day. I would guess I'm pushing my luck at 8.4V but I don't think that caused any servo issues. When I was messing around with the wiring I plugged the servo in backwards (not keyed), I imagine that would fry it? Interesting to know about the BEC circuit, found it odd how most servo's were rated for 6V which didn't seem to line up with a standard voltage rating on the batteries. Not obvious from the stupid mistakes I'm making but I actually have an electrical background, thought this would be the easy part.

So my real questions now would be, should the set-up I'm attempting work and did I fry the servo by reversing polarity at the RX? I think I'll just buy the right battery though to be honest.

I was looking at iCharger and Revolectrix, turned off by the requirement to get an external power supply that basically doubled the price of the set-up. Put that money into a Bat-Safe instead. I can't see those bags doing all that much.

The build is both fun and frustrating.
 
If you're running a TBLE-02S ESC then I'm assuming youve replaced the one that came stock? From What I'm reading online the stock ESC was the Teu-104BK ESC which is a brushed ESC which would make sense given that you're still running the stock silver motor witch should be a brushed motor. The TBLE-02S is a brushless ESC designed for brushless motors. As far as I'm aware you can't run a brushed motor with a brushless ESC so I'm guessing you're still using stock. (If I have any of this wrong please let me know. I'm only going off of what I can find on the internet about the kit in particular and the electronics it comes with. Outside of a Tamiya Frog, which was my first kit back in the 80s I've never owned a Tamiya kit)

Does the ESC have 2 motor wires coming off of it or 3?
This is what the 3 motor wire brushless ESC looks like (TBLE-02S)
9d4266bcc32cf83d1cfbafafe4abfcb1.jpg


This is what the 2 motor wire brushed ESC looks like (Teu-104BK)
d2b5532bad74c4370dc6b48f1efab401.JPG


Regardless of which ESC it is though, they are both rated for a maximum input voltage of 7.2V like you said which is to say using LiPos with those ESCs could damage them. Heres the crappy part though. I wouldnt go back top using NiXX packs if you paid me. The run time and the performance both are sorely lacking compared to LiPo. Plus you're already invested in the charger and batteries. *Side Note* Your Hitec charger is a good charger even if it doesn't read IR. A lot of people run LiPo and have no idea what the IRs of their packs look like. Its more for electro-nerds like me who actually care and are interested in that sort of stuff. Well I feel its important but I digress... Getting back to the ESC thing at hand though. If it were me, and I know this isnt what you want to hear cuz this is going to cost more money, but I would replace either the existing ESC with a brushed ESC that can handle LiPo voltages or replace the existing ESC/Motor combo with a suitable brushless setup that is capable of running lipo. Problem with going brushless is you'll pick up a ton of power and Tamiya kits arent really designed for that kind of power so you may be faced with trying to upgrade driveline components and I have no idea what sort of after market support there is out there for Tamiya kits. I believe Tamiya kits are typically more about looks and style than performance.

That being said though, quality brushless ESCs can be tweaked to control their power output so you could potentially go brushless and just tune the ESC for lower punch and throttle levels. Quality radios would have some options that could help with that too but I'm assuming you're running a stock radio right now. These are just a couple possibilities though. If we keep talkin this out we'll probably figure out a good solution. If you took some good pics of the kit and espically the electronics and post em up that would help me also.

As for your servo, yes reversing the polarity could have easily killed either the servo or posibly the RX channel it was plugged in to. No way to know without a servo tester or another RX/Batt to test with. Id venture to say that it did take out one or both.

If you need any help picking out replacement electronics or have any other questions just let me know :)
 
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I bought it because it looks like a Subaru Brat which is a bit of an aspirational vehicle for me for some reason. I just think they're cool. The kit has been discontinued for a while so parts support is minimal. It's a Tamiya re-release, if I understand that correctly it's made to the same standard as the original 1980s release and not to modern standards, likely can't put up with modern motors. My kids 1/16 Traxxas Summit will blow the doors off it.

It is the 3 wire ESC and the 2 wire motor, exactly what was supplied in the kit. Motor seems to run fine (no wheels, no load only for a few seconds). I don't know if the motor is brushed or not, not sure if 2 wires gives indication. You can see some sparks when it fires up, I assume that's the brushes, not sure though. Forward / reverse no problem.

I'm a little worried about the RX, that's worth a bit of money but it's still running the motor. The TX and the RX are both 4 channel so worse case I'm hoping one of the spare channels are operational if the servo blew the connected channel. Quite convinced the servo is shot. Don't think I'll try it on another channel in case it takes another it out.

The radio I think can do anything I need it to. Futaba T4GRS is a pretty up there stick radio (don't like the wheel), but I'm questioning my ability to get the most out of it right now. I'm really hoping to be setting up programs and limits with it, not as intuitive as I thought it would be.

I think I may pick up a NIMH battery just to get this thing rolling and worry about upgrades later, save the money for the MP10e.

If I had to do it again I would set-up all the electronics separately on the bench to test and then install them in the kit. Also I would read the manual first and then connect power. As opposed to connect power and then reach for manual. Live and learn.

I'm going to see where things are with the Rx and servo and figure things out from there. If I decide on an electronics overhaul I'll be back. Thanks for the help.
 
I bought it because it looks like a Subaru Brat which is a bit of an aspirational vehicle for me for some reason. I just think they're cool. The kit has been discontinued for a while so parts support is minimal. It's a Tamiya re-release, if I understand that correctly it's made to the same standard as the original 1980s release and not to modern standards, likely can't put up with modern motors. My kids 1/16 Traxxas Summit will blow the doors off it.
I get that, I've almost bought the Tamiya Frog re-release just because it was the first RC I ever had back in teh mid 80s.

It is the 3 wire ESC and the 2 wire motor, exactly what was supplied in the kit. Motor seems to run fine (no wheels, no load only for a few seconds). I don't know if the motor is brushed or not, not sure if 2 wires gives indication. You can see some sparks when it fires up, I assume that's the brushes, not sure though. Forward / reverse no problem.
This is interesting to me because I was unaware that you could run a brushed motor off of a brushless ESC. Learn something new everyday. So one of the ESC motor wires is just there with nothing plugged in to it? Id heard that there were a select few brushless ESCs that could run brushed motors just never actually seen it before. I had begun to believe it was a myth. :)

Also Yes a motor with 2 wires is brushed vs a brushless motor that has 3 wires. The sparks are also a give away and yes thats from the brushes :)

I'm a little worried about the RX, that's worth a bit of money but it's still running the motor. The TX and the RX are both 4 channel so worse case I'm hoping one of the spare channels are operational if the servo blew the connected channel. Quite convinced the servo is shot. Don't think I'll try it on another channel in case it takes another it out.
If it were me, Id hook the servo up to the mini e-revo's 1st channel in its RX and see if the servo works since that is your only known good working RX that I'm aware of. That will tell you if the problem is with the servo or the RX. Even if the servo is dead it shouldnt hurt the RX.

The radio I think can do anything I need it to. Futaba T4GRS is a pretty up there stick radio (don't like the wheel), but I'm questioning my ability to get the most out of it right now. I'm really hoping to be setting up programs and limits with it, not as intuitive as I thought it would be.

I think I may pick up a NIMH battery just to get this thing rolling and worry about upgrades later, save the money for the MP10e.
The Futaba radio is a nice one, it should do anything you want it to. As for the NiXX that may actually be your best bet with this particular car. At least until you get to the point where you want to replace the stock ESC with a brushed ESC that can handle LiPo voltages.
 
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