Big 3 bailout

[MrClean]

I hope no one here works for any of the automakers that seem to be struggling so badly and talk of disaster if they don't get money from the government.

But there was something I thought was ironic while the CEO's were begging the government board for money. A representative asked them how they got to Washington, DC. All 3 admitted they flew in on private jets.....apparently they think their companies are not doing badly enough to get a normal passenger flight. I can only imagine what the cost was for each of them to have a private jet. Don't get me wrong, I try to buy American made products whenever possible, but this is just another example of why our major corporations continue to fail and lose ground to foreign companies....... overpaid and over-privileged executives. I know the current market situation plays into this, but some of these executives need to be CHECKED.

The government agent asked them "Couldn't you have 'jet-pooled' or down graded to first-class?" I've never seen 3 people with more dumbfounded looks on their face.

 

[Rolex]

Amazing. Doesn't surprise me at all. More useless, wasteful spending by those at the top. The biggest problem here is that we really can't do anything BUT bail them out. They are OUR American companies and OUR American work force. Let them go down the tubes, and this country will only go down that much faster. Anything else left to produce in China other than our cars?

 

[bentover]

Alot of the problems with the Big 3 have to do with management, a good example (and true) is the Bobcat Corporation based in Gwinner, North Dakota. Bobcat is the largest producer of small compact excavating equipment and they were bought out by Doosan Infracore in Korea just 2 years ago. Bobcat's reasons behind the buyout were that they wanted to dump their current Ingersoll Rand owners to make way for the future (true) but the real reason was leaked from an employee who was laid off, Bobcat mangers never payed attention to the current housing market, they over produced machines and payed overtime to everyone who built them, but there was dwindling demand, so they went tits up and needed a bail out.

Now, where am I going with this?

How the hell do you explain a new 2008 DuraMax 3/4 ton truck with all the goodies costing over $71,000 CAN??????
Bad mangement and piss poor ethics are too blame, jack up the prices of these new vehicles and add the higher costs of insurance and fuel, and no one will be buying them.

All the added over time costs are being added to the MSRP's.

I'd say let the Big 3 go down the crapper, maybe they will get smarter next time.

 

[NCNitro]

Another thing to look at. Watch tv, especially during a sports game, and count the car commercials. Count them throughout the course of an evening. They could save millions annually by cutting out 80% of those commercials. IMO a car commercial is not going to influence my decission on which car I am going to buy anyway. I am sick of watching mis-managed overpaid, ceos and execs asking for our tax payer dollars to bail them out, and getting it, all while flagrantly pissing away money right in our faces.

 

[RC Addict]

It costs, on average, $85 dollars an hour per person to make a car for the Big 3. Toyota builds cars HERE for an average of $45 dollars an hour per person. You can do the math from there.

And yes, let's fly out in a corporate jet at a cost of $20,000.00 instead of a first-class round-trip ticket at $855.00!

 

[savagefan04]

guys its not so much the overpaid execs, they contribute to the mess, but IMO its the overpaid union reps and retired workers that killed the big three. dont get me wrong, i mean no personal disrespect to the union guys. i have friends that are union members and most will say the same thing. we did it to ourselves.

when a manufacturer needs to recover on average 4-5k per car sold just to cover retirement benefit costs that is wrong and a perfect example of people lining their pockets with everyone elses sweat. and because of that i say let them sink, or force them to drop some of there product line. does ford really need to have like 15 different models? other companies drop product lines or discontinue poor selling models to trim costs. that is just business 101.

and here in the best part of the whole deal today. all 3 CEO's were asked, if you are all so cash strapped and really love your job, then work for 1 dollar and no fancy benefits. only 1 said he would do it. the other 2 said thats impossible. those 2 are multi-millionaires...explain that to joe taxpayer who will get saddled with this new debt in the coming month under the new administration...

 

[Hunter]

I've read all of his and all I can say is WHAT A LOAD of CRAP... You want to blame Unions or workes flying to lobby for them, ok what ever. They had the chance to make a better car that waS BETTER and what did they do NOTHING, NOTHING at all. We could have beat the crap out of everyone out there but did they do it HELL No. They chose not to they picked the easy road and not there they are paying the price.


Okay I'm done

 

[marauder]

I come from an entire family of automotive engineers in the 6 figure income range, and I can for one say they all earn their income. I don't know much about the execs, but I know what I see and it kills me to hear the news I'm hearing right now. I hate it, and I hope this isn't one of those "they had it coming" threads. It seems my threads get closed before they start, so yeah...

 

[abadk9420]

IMO Bailing out all of these big banks and companies is a bunch of horse sh!t. I say if you want to stimulate the economy then divide all that bail out money between every working tax paying citizen over the age of 18 in the USA which amounts to about $380,000 per person. that would stimulate the economy, people would buy houses, new cars, go out to eat, buy stuff for there RC hobby LOL!!!! and what ever else they might be needing... I say let the banks that made bad loans to people that they new were not going to be able to make there payments for what ever they had loans for, sink like a freaking lead weight!!!!!!Thats just my 2 cents worth....

 

[RC Addict]

I come from an entire family of automotive engineers in the 6 figure income range, and I can for one say they all earn their income. I don't know much about the execs, but I know what I see and it kills me to hear the news I'm hearing right now. I hate it, and I hope this isn't one of those "they had it coming" threads. It seems my threads get closed before they start, so yeah...

I don't want to see the Big 3 go down. Hell, my girlfriend works for a leather seat manufacturer (she is a plant manager in Mexico) supplying the Big 3 and the import market. My dad hauls auto parts for GM to the plants in Ohio. But, I don't think we need to be bailing ANYONE out. Those corporations can file Chapter 11 and restructure the same way the airlines did.

Contracts need to be renegotiated. Labor needs to make concessions. And most importantly, the execs must cut excessive spending.

Only problem is everyone sees the government and it's excesses and says "why not spend like there is no tomorrow, the government does".

 

[Rolex]

I agree that they should file chapter 11 and restructure themselves while they dig out of the mess they created.
During the first "Gas crisis" they built useless crap cars like the Chevy Vega and the Pacer, while Toyota ran all over us with a really good compact cars.
Lately, as gas prices rose, and multiple foreign markets started taking over, we built SUVs because the profit margin was far greater for the manufacturer, and they didn't have to meet the CAFE (MPG) ratings since they were classed as trucks. I haven't seen much of that spent on research for an affordable and dependable hybrid.
Thanks to the rising cost of gas, SUV days are coming to an end, and we have nothing to offer.

 

[Lessen]

Just the thought of these companies looking for a piece of the bail-out pie makes me sick. I wasn't a fan of the bail-out to begin with. All three of these companies ran themselves like there was no tomorrow. They paid too much for waaay too long because they allowed unions to bully them around. Unions are the death of the big three and are killing America. They were great in there day and they did what they were intended to do but they have gotten far out of control because of greed. I feel very bad for all the hardworking folks out there in the industries affected but just because you work hard on an assembly line doesn't mean you deserve to make the kind of wages some of them have/do. I work hard in my industrial job but never would I imagine that my work should be worth 80k+ per year. That's just stupid. Greedy unions negotiators and spineless auto execs that allowed themselves to be bullied for so long are to blame IMO.

I say let them file chapter 11. I don't know what they have to do to right themselves as that is FAAAR over my head but it's their responsiblity, not mine.

 

[RC Addict]

Amen brother lessen! You pretty much summed up what the majority of Americans are saying. Too bad government doesn't listen to us. If the auto maker bail-out doesn't happen now it WILL happen with the new administration.

 

[robmob]

If there is to be a bail out for the not so big 3, it should come from the oil companies. They depend on them to build inefficient gas guzzlers so they can sell more oil.

 

[MrClean]

If there is to be a bail out for the not so big 3, it should come from the oil companies. They depend on them to build inefficient gas guzzlers so they can sell more oil.

Excellent idea Rob, obviously they have the money, they gouged us for over a year with +$3.00 a gallon fuel.

You should have ran for president!

 

[NCNitro]

If there is to be a bail out for the not so big 3, it should come from the oil companies. They depend on them to build inefficient gas guzzlers so they can sell more oil.

Great idea!

 

[newviennajj]

what about natural selection ? survival of the fittest ?

 

[bentover]

what about natural selection ? survival of the fittest ?

Amen, the first North American vehicle building company to come up with a vehicle that uses 80% less fuel and still has balls to boot, wins.

 

[newviennajj]

i want my 300,000$

 

[psunitro]

It is a LOAN, not a hand out. The cash is to be paid back.

Now, what is the likelyhood of the cash being paid back? Would a bank give you or me a loan if we had no real idea of what we were doing? NO. It is a VERY BAD investment. PEROID.What is their "plan" to rebuild?
I know how herd the average person works. That is not the problem. The problem starts with the management and Union reps robbing Peter to pay Paul. I believe like 1/3 of the cost of a big 3 car/truck goes to retired workers in the form of benifits. They need to restructure how the do things, peroid.

As an example, the local Harley plant went on strike. This went on for 2 weeks. Then a break thru, the workers "won". They got the no cost insurance( or very very little) and a bunch of other concessions. They won right? NOPE, the following month they went to 4 day work weeks, before some were laid off. This is the cycle we need to break.

Another one,
Last place I worked I cut panels for Boeing 777's and 767's. I could CNC about 5-10 per hour, depending. We were an official "outsource" for them, and the workers at the main plant HATED us. WHY? because 2 workers were only required to cut 2 panels per hour. Here I am making $11 per hour and doubling to quadrupling the output of 2 men making a combined $50-$60 per hour. What happened to the main plant? Got shut down and moved to another state.

I want to see a breakdown of how and what they are going to use MY $$$ for.