Who Knows Engines? UPDATE

[Scrogg]

Rolex I have a 2002 Mazda Protoge ES. It does the same thing whenever I drive it in really bad rain. A day or so of dry weather and the problem disappears.
Normal rainy days don't affect it, just those once in a blue moon downpoors.
I have to keep my foot on the throttle to keep it running until it drys out.lol
I'm not paying 100+ bucks for some mechanic to guess with his majic diagnostic macheen.

 

[Rolex]

have you cheacked the sparkplugs and your airfilter and might need to replace your fuel injectors usally if it stays at high idle it is the sparkplugs going bad. or some water got on part on the computer and shorted a wire

No need to cheack the plugs or air filter or replace the fuel injectors. going to a high idle is NOT a symptom of spark plugs going bad. If you read the thread, you would know that none of the above are a problem. How many cars have you had?
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I had an appointment this morning, so I had to take my chances. It started at normal idle, not cold start idle, then when I sat there waiting for the heat (13 degrees when I left) the idle went up to 2 grand.
It got me where I was going and back, but I kept one foot on the gas and the left on the brake just to keep the idle up. There's a problem going from a normal idle to accelerate, but if I keep the idle high the car runs fine.

 

[qaart]

go to autozone they check it for free

 

[beason]

go to autozone they check it for free

dude.. i think the "dipsh!t" comment was to you..

if you would have read the thread, his check engine light never came on.. how could autozone check for codes if the car isnt throwing any codes?

rolex, i wouldnt rule out the mass airflow, a guy here at work, put hours into his checking everything. his was doing basically the same thing, started sputtered died, then wouldnt start. changing the mass airflow fixed his.

 

[qaart]

not always the check engine light has to be on

 

[Rolex]

not always the check engine light has to be on

Huh? yeah, and this also makes sense.

 

[neobart]

Jesus Rolex...... Where do you find that stuff. LMAO

BTW. That was a rhetorical question. I really, really, really don't wanna know.







REALLY!!!

 

[destrucktomaxx]

It's really wonderful to see how many bench mechanics we have here. Not that I'm downing anybodies opinions (well....maybe a few) or trying to step on toes, but damn....We got kids spouting off jargon they heard off 2 Fast 2 Furious, folks with overheard knowledge of a very complicated system but have very limited experience with it, and then we got the people who are so far lost as to what is really happening that they point to a component, as if on some proverbial automotive witch hunt, that has NOTHING to do with the issue at hand...

Sorry if I've upset anybody but really...don't make this seem soo overly complicated that even a NASA scientist would cower and run away hysterically screaming from....Folks...its only nuts and bolts...

First rule of automotive diagnosis 101...The mechanic's stare...does everything look right? Second Rule....Know the flow...Why spend an hour (or more per book time) testing a head light circuit because the customer complains that the head light isn't operational....when all it was was a smoked fuse? Does that make sense? In knowing the flow....fuses, relays, wiring, THEN THE COMPONENT. Never assume its the component, unless its a known fact that its a problematic piece.

Once again..I apologize if this seems harsh...been a crappy crappy day. I'm off my soap box now.

 

[joneser4u]

dude, did you just tell me to check the fuse next time i have a headlight out? ummm ok!

 

[destrucktomaxx]

Head lamps are on fused circuits, are they not? Imagine yourself as a dealership technician. Go ahead...pop the hood..pull the connector.... twist off the holder....marvel at yourself when you realize...Damn...it ain't the bulb. You go right ahead and do that, while I open the car door..locate the fuse panel...and find the blown 20 amp fuse that protects the circuit oh so nicely. My 15 seconds to your 5 minutes....who just made a fat penny from 15 seconds of work, when flat rate book time pays a bare minimum of .5 hours, and just who goes on to the next job while your still working on the first one? ME.

Sure, its not always going to be a fuse, or a relay, or the wiring, or even the component. But thats no reason to set yourself up by working backwards. Yea..you may get lucky a few times...don't let it go to your head, it'll catch up to you sooner or later.

 

[qaart]

how often is it when the headlight goes out its the fuse.

 

[destrucktomaxx]

Not as often as punk kids speak out of turn.

 

[Rolex]

how often is it when the headlight goes out its the fuse.

Not as often as punk kids speak out of turn.

We've tried, destrucktomaxx, Oh, how we've tried. We've all reached the same conclusion. Ron White said it. "You CAN'T fix stupid."

 

[ajames942]

+ to the rolex! You really can't fix stupid.

 

[destrucktomaxx]

I may be young by most standards, being only 22...but even I know when to shut my mouth.

 

[Rolex]

Try turning on the A/C and see if the engine RPM increases. If it does, the IAC is working properly, if it decreases then it is, of course, not operating properly.

The pedal itself is stubborn? Like sticky stubborn or like hard heade R/C car guru stubborn?

I just went through this thread and realized I had missed this post. I haven't tried the A/C yet, but I will next time I'm out.
The pedal itself will not move smoothly when you start to press. It won't move at all till more pressure is applied, then it jumps about 1/4 inch, I get the sputter and lurch and above that RPM all is good. After having the hood up on it, the sticking is in the linkage where it goes to the IAC valve. I WDd all the connections around there, but nothing changed.
I really think you nailed it Justin. I'll keep you posted.
I did some checking and it's a $130 part. It's in the teens outside, so I won't be doing it myself, but I'll take it to Firestone down the street. I get my tires there, and so far they seem like a good place to go for most work.
Problem is, it's a $130 dollar part, they'll probably get it for 70, and an hour later I'll have a bill for 400.

 

[RC Addict]

Holy CRAP! Now faart is telling MEN how to diagnose and fix a car! I LOVE this kid. That skull of his must have one hell of an echo...

+ to the rolex! You really can't fix stupid.

The really, REALLY sad part is we spent DAYS trying to!!!



Oh, you THINK you can fix it. Then it pisses in it's own face and you say to yourself, "Ron was right..."

 

[destrucktomaxx]

I just went through this thread and realized I had missed this post. I haven't tried the A/C yet, but I will next time I'm out.
The pedal itself will not move smoothly when you start to press. It won't move at all till more pressure is applied, then it jumps about 1/4 inch, I get the sputter and lurch and above that RPM all is good. After having the hood up on it, the sticking is in the linkage where it goes to the IAC valve. I WDd all the connections around there, but nothing changed.
I really think you nailed it Justin. I'll keep you posted.
I did some checking and it's a $130 part. It's in the teens outside, so I won't be doing it myself, but I'll take it to Firestone down the street. I get my tires there, and so far they seem like a good place to go for most work.
Problem is, it's a $130 dollar part, they'll probably get it for 70, and an hour later I'll have a bill for 400.

I really appreciate your respect Rolex, that goes along way with me. I'm not right all the time, that's a fact of life. But I try my damnedest to find the most logical solution to a problem and it pays off for the most part.

The sticky pedal is most likely caused by carbon deposits built up around the edge of the throttle blade. Easy fix, one your all too familiar with...break out the q-tips and throttle body specific cleaner. Use of anything other than TB safe cleanser can destroy a throttle body because the blade(s) have a special coating on them that reduces air turbulence. Clean it up real nice like and it might actually aide the other issue too.

I'll most likely be the only mechanic that will level with you on this but....parts markup is not where we make money, its beating book time by a grand margin and as luck would have it..still get to charge you..the consumer..for the maximum allotted book time. Parts markup..10-15%...Labor rate...50-150 an hour, minimum 1/2 hour...book time to replace a faulty IAC valve is something like 1.5 hours but don't quote me on that...It can be changed out in 30 minutes or less...theres yer monies spent.

Its an easy to replace item my friend. You can do it with simple hand tools. If ya want, I can even walk you step by step thru the process.

 

[Rolex]

Not sure on the clean up fix. It's not a throttle body, it's fuel injected. Again, I'm old school, and when I first bought the car and looked under the hood, I thought it would be nuclear powered. All I recognized was the dip stick handle.

 

[Webbage]

I'm trying to keep out of this as I'm *not* a mechanic. I do know a bit about fuel injection as I work in the car parts trade. I lack practical experience though so you are free to take my words with a huge pinch of salt.

All the cars we work on at work (diesel Land Rovers, mostly) exhibit the same symptoms when the airflow sensor dies. They'll start, sometimes after a fight, and run okay at low revs but as soon as you give them some gas or try to drive them hard at a hill they die on their asses and run totally gutless. This is the case on all the electronic injection diesels we see in the shop. Of course, on a diesel you can tell when it's burning badly and over-fueling from a bad sensor because the world behind you disappears in a cloud of smoke. It's not so easy on a gas engine, unless you can smell it on the exhaust gasses. They *don't* tend to misfire though. Diesel and Gas fuel injection works along the same lines (before you all kick my ass I know the combustion mechanism on diesel is different!!) so I'd say from yours it wasn't the airflow sensor, but that's just my experience on the matter.

I spoke to my dad, who's worked on cars on and off and he suggested you check the distributor (or coil packs if it uses electronic coils), cap (which I think you did already) and the HT leads, make sure it's firing okay on all 8 plugs and as a precaution fit a new set of HT leads to the plugs. It's possible that very wet HT leads can short inside the rubber cap and you get a carbon deposit that conducts electricity to ground and stops the plug sparking. You can't really get rid if it once it happens.
Also verify you definitely have the leads on tin the correct order if you took them off (sounds patronizing but you never know...). His take on it is it sounds like the timing is off or it's not firing correctly at all 8 cylinders, and it's only when it gets up to higher RPM speed that it's overrunning the lack of firing. I know from watching the guys diagnosing Rover V8s at work of a similar era that they can spit and pop a lot at low revs but if you rev them only a well trained ear can hear the one or two cylinders not firing. It doesn't sound like fuel injection, unless the ECM is really badly screwed and it's screwed the fuel timing.

That doesn't explain why it cut out on you, or why it wouldn't start, but that could have been water in cap, or a number of other places. I'm afraid that's the best I can manage. To be honest if your engine is running on an ECM system you are very limited to what you can test on your own, you may need to seek garage assistance. In the long run it's expensive taking it into a garage but it's cheaper than replacing parts at random until it stops.