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SH .28 help

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michaeljl3

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I'm fairly noob to nitro engines. I bought a redcat avalanche with a SH .28 last october. I broke it in(according to the manual) ran 3/4 of a gallon of nitro thru it, and stored it for winter. I went to get it out a couple weeks ago, had her running pretty good until the clutch went out. At the time, i didnt know it was the clutch and figured maybe i had to re-tune for the warmer weather. So, i reset all needles to factory settings(3 turns out HSN/LSN and 1-1.5mm on idle). Couldnt get it to run all day, then i removed the bell gear and found the destroyed clutch. Now that thats replaced, along with a brand new glow plug, and fresh batteries for everything, i can not get the thing to start. I've even tried a hair drier and heat gun to warm the head.
It does fire, but immediatley dies.
Any help greatly appreciated!
 
If it's already broken in....the factory settings are WAY too rich. Lean your HSN 1/4 turn to 1/2 turn at a time until it fires up. If you go more than 1 - 1 1/2 turns lean....the problem is most likely elsewhere....like your LSN. If both are too rich...it won't stay running. So just go easy on both until it fires up and stays running and you can tune properly from there.

Remember though....always tune from rich to lean...and not lean to rich.
 
Nice! Thanks, it finally fires and idles like a champ.
Is it normal for the fuel line to drain when the engine stalls? the fuel feed line was empty, and the one hooked up to the muffler filled with gas. Air leak maybe?
 
Nice! Thanks, it finally fires and idles like a champ.
Is it normal for the fuel line to drain when the engine stalls? the fuel feed line was empty, and the one hooked up to the muffler filled with gas. Air leak maybe?

There are gases from the exhaust that are putting pressure into the fuel cell pushing the fuel to the carburetor. If there are no pressures then the fuel starts to fall back into the tank, and due to surface tension it pulls all of the fuel down.
 
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Ok, been at this all day again! Almost brought out the BFH :)

At absolutey cold temps, i can prime the engine, and it starts within 3 pulls.
I drive it slowly for a lap or two around my yard, then I'm able to give full throttle. The first pass is great, nice accleration, plenty of smoke, and seemingly great top speed.
Second pass at WOT, bogs at take off, almost stalls, then takes off. Not quite as much smoke. Let off the trottle to turn = stall. Engine will not restart until fully cooled.
I might add that it feels very hot! I do not have a temp gun yet to test temps.
Did i go too lean maybe?
 
If it's bogging down low....you need to figure out if it's a lean bog or a rich bog ;-) If it sounds like it's loading up with fuel...then it clears and takes off like a rocket...you might be rich on the Low Speed Needle. If it sounds like it's starving for fuel (like a studdering sound) then you're probably too lean on the LSN.

How is your idle after you start it? High? Low? Sound about right? If you let it warm up and then give it a wide open burst to clear out the engine then hop on the brakes...what does the engine do? Does it rev up for a period of time and then come back down to a steady idle? Does it come right back to steady? Does it choke itself and die?

Remember, when in doubt.....RICHEN your HSN by 1-2 hours. Especially if it feels hot. If you don't have a temp gun....spit on the head. If it boils instantly....you're too lean. If it sits for a second or 2 and then boils off...you're probably OK.
 
How is your idle after you start it? High? Low? Sound about right? If you let it warm up and then give it a wide open burst to clear out the engine then hop on the brakes...what does the engine do? Does it rev up for a period of time and then come back down to a steady idle? Does it come right back to steady? Does it choke itself and die?

Idle at start sounds perfect. The warmer the engine gets with a WOT it makes a "wah-wah-wah" at takeoff and if i dont release the throttle it dies, gradual throttle pull works tho. As far as hopping on the brakes, idle seems to kick back to normal after my second pass, after my third, wether I apply brakes or just coast into a turn, it just dies out when i apply the throttle hard, no revving.
Id like to add, that HSN is approx two turns out, and LSN about 2 1/2.

Thanks for the help!
 
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HSN is 2 turns out from fully seated (or 2 turns out from flush with the housing)? Or did you mean 2 turns in from Flush with the housing? If it's only 2 turns out from fully seated YOU ARE WAY TOO LEAN! lol Well maybe not on that particular engine, but 2 turns is not really open hardly at all from flush....so if I had to guess your lean on both needles.

The "wah wah wah" sounds like a lean bog though....the engine is basically starving for fuel at the low speed needle. This could be either because your LSN is too lean....or your HSN is too lean. I would try to richen the HSN 1-2 hours and see what happens. You may also need to richen your LSN 1 hour or so, but start with the HSN first.

What you want to do really is this:

1. Start engine and let it warm up for 1-2 minutes.
2. From a dead stop, do a wide open pass down the street (use gradual throttle if you have to)
3. After 2-3 passes, try and remember what the engine was doing on the top end of things.
4. Tune the HSN to run nice and crisp on the top end at speed, but so it doesn't die when you hop on the brakes.

If it bogs and chokes at full throttle/speed then you're definitely too rich. If you don't see any smoke and the rig seems awfully fast....you're probably too lean. You want a nice trail of blue smoke behind you, and when you go from idle to full throttle you really want to see a healthy cloud of smoke puff out when you take off. If you are at a track or bashing around, same deal...every corner you take where you let off and get back on the throttle you want to see a nice puff of smoke and then a healthy trail.

Once you're done with that, now it's time to tune the LSN. If it's bogging when you go wide open from a dead stop, you need to figure out why. Engine temps will help here. If it runs real hot at idle, your LSN is probably too lean. If it loads up with fuel at stalls after 10-15 seconds at idle....you're probably too rich. Somewhere in between is the tune you are looking for. Ideally, you want it lean enough to give you a good fast launch when you are at a dead stop and go wide open, but you want to see some nice smoke when it takes off, and you want to keep your temps in check.

Find that balance, and your engine will love you in return. Once you think you've got the LSN tuned, let it idle and then pinch the fuel line. If it revs up and dies after say 2-5 seconds....you're probably pretty close to the perfect tune. If it dies instantly, you're too lean....if it takes awhile for it to rev up and finally stall...you're too rich.

Hope that helps? lol
 
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Ill give it a whirl soon as the yard gets some shade! Its a bit toasty out there at the moment. Will post results later!

Results!
Richened both needles 1/2 turn HSN almost 1/2 turn LSN. While it was running, ran great, no bogging at WOT from a stand still, nice smoke trail, nice top speed. Then it suddenly just shut down. I checked glow plug and even tried a new one, but can't get it to fire back up. Bah! Are all nitro's a pain in the arse? Or just these redcats!

EDIT:
Richened it up a bit, and opened the gap in the carb a bit more. Got er running and was flying around til it ran out of gas. I think its still a bit lean, i spit on it and it boiled away instantly. Tommorow i will try to richen it a lil more.

I suppose over heating may be making it die? and not restart when it warm?
 
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Hey MOTOGOD, thanks for all the detailed info. I was reading this thread and found it helpful answering some questions i,ve had lingering. I'm a 6 month old noob trying to perfect my tuning skills an my tmaxx 4908. I understand that the 3.3 can be a tough engine to tune. I figure it thats true and I can master this engine than the rest should be easier! once again thanks for the info. :)
 
You nailed it michael....if it's overheating too much that's bad. Things start to warp and expand beyond what they are supposed to and basically your engine gets low on compression...hence the hard starting or not starting until it cools and contracts again. I would richen it up some more and see how it runs. Rich is your friend, as long as you're not too rich since that loads up the engine and isn't good either. You really need to get a good balance between rich enough to lube the engine properly, and lean enough to still make good power. Fuel also sort of acts as a liquid coolant for these small engines which is why when you richen up the HSN (or LSN) you will see your engine temps go down a little at a time. For my engine, 1 hour richer or leaner yields @ 10 degrees of engine temp either way (rich cools it off, lean makes it hotter).

Always remember that when you shut down your engine you should put your piston at bottom dead center (BDC) so that when it cools the sleeve doesn't stay in an expanded state and lessen your compression over time. To get to BDC just rotate the flywheel to where it feels the loosest. Some people mark the flywheel where BDC is to aid in doing this after each run, but if you use a bump box the mark will keep getting rubbed off.

rak - You're welcome. I was a complete nitro n00b @ 12 months or so ago. I couldn't tune if my life depended on it, but after a LOT of reading and tuning practice it just kind of clicked. I am by no means an expert nitro tuner, but I can generally get my engines humming along quite nicely these days. Somedays I want to throw them out the window still though as it can be frustrating when you factor in air leaks, worn sleeves, bad bearings....etc etc etc Practice Practice Practice and you will get better with it.

The 3.3 isn't too bad to tune really. One of my first rigs was a Revo 3.3 and I had mine humming along, but I had it running pretty hot (@ 285ish) and when it would stall...it was hard to refire....but it made no power before it got to @ 270 degrees...so they can be finicky I suppose since they all run at different temps there is really no baseline. I had friends running their 3.3 at 240 all day long.....mine just refused to run properly at that temp...so I tuned it for smoke and sound and just left it that way. Ran great until the day I sold it....but I could only get like 3-4 tanks out of it until it would give me a headache refiring.

You guys just remember that EVERY engine is different...and no one can really fine tune your engine over the internet ;-) Use everything I say (and others say) as a guide for what you probably need to do...and modify it to what works for YOUR engine.

I try to help out as much as I can out here....since I was begging for help just like you many months ago. I got my help....time for me to get typing to help others as well!
 
Thanks for all the info Motogod! Got er up and running today! Ran two tanks thru it, still a tad hard to start up when its warm, but at least its going. It seems a tad rich atm, but I'm gonna leave it til i get a temp gun.
Slow take off would take me to the LSN correct? Lean a tad?
 
Yup. If it's a little sluggish off the line (from idle to open throttle) then you will want to lean your LSN 1 hour at a time until it launches properly. Even without a temp gun...you can still do the spit test ;-) Spit on the head...if it boils off right away (like almost instantly starts bubbling) then you are running too hot. If it sits there for a few seconds and then boils....you are probably ok....if it sits there and never boils...you are probably way too rich. Remember water boils at 212 degrees....so your spit should almost always boil off after a few seconds, but if it hits and bubbles at the same time...it's HOT. lol It's not a great way to temp an engine, but it will give you a little insight into what temps you are running without a temp gun.

How is the compression on the engine when it's warm? Does the flywheel spin almost freely? Does it have a little resistance? A lot of resistance? A good test of an engine's "pinch" is to spin the flywheel just after you shut it off and see what kind of resistance you get when everything inside is all nice and toasty warm. Cold engines will almost always have resistance to them unless they are REALLY shot....warm ones lose quite a bit to expansion, but there should still be some left.
 
If it's already broken in....the factory settings are WAY too rich. Lean your HSN 1/4 turn to 1/2 turn at a time until it fires up. If you go more than 1 - 1 1/2 turns lean....the problem is most likely elsewhere....like your LSN. If both are too rich...it won't stay running. So just go easy on both until it fires up and stays running and you can tune properly from there.

Remember though....always tune from rich to lean...and not lean to rich.
I have a nitro avalanche redcat and it’s already broken in I put a new carburetor on it a few weeks ago bc the other one was bad and now the nitro rc won’t idle it will start a run for a minute or 2 but then it dies after I let go of the throttle
 
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