New HPI Savage X 4.6

[Nitro Nerd]

Voting Time. Clocked Picco Boost .28 or a Clocked Nova 28-7?

LRP32. I am DEAD SERIOUS. ;-)

Really encourage you to cut your teeth on that LRP32 (you yourself admitted you were still learning how to race tune)...then upgrade. You'll want to appreciate the difference when its time. That was the advice Neal gave me a while back and I'm glad a listened. Just my two cents. ;-)

 

[gablett]

Well i ended up talking with neal and placed my order for a Clocked Picco 28 rotostart along with the M2C Gen 2 variable weight clutch kit. See how it goes.

I am going to run at least a gallon through this LRP just to get a good feel for it and how to tune it well. Then Ill install the Picco. Gonna be a bit before its here anyway. I figure if I can tune a LRP .32 then I can tune a Picco.

 

[bobaloohoo]

Well i ended up talking with neal and placed my order for a Clocked Picco 28 rotostart along with the M2C Gen 2 variable weight clutch kit. See how it goes.

I am going to run at least a gallon through this LRP just to get a good feel for it and how to tune it well. Then Ill install the Picco. Gonna be a bit before its here anyway. I figure if I can tune a LRP .32 then I can tune a Picco.

man you need to slow down lol

 

[gablett]

man you need to slow down lol

Agreed, this will be my last RC related purchase for quite a while lol. Biggest mistake I made was buying that LRP. I should have done more research before I pulled the trigger. But it wasn't very expensive and a good learning experience.

 

[bobaloohoo]

how was it a mistake?

 

[gablett]

I guess mistake is a bad word. Not ideal is a better choice. I wanted a motor to make this thing rip in connection with the ERCM pipe. The LRP definitely rips, but theres a few things that the Picco does better for just a little more money.

 

[Nitro Nerd]

You will love it for sure. Never owned a Picco but have heard ridiculous things about that clocked 28. Neal at CRE was telling me he has that Team Spec 21 like butter....I have a clocked Nova 28-5/41001 on its way and once I get that beasting in my Savage....I will be ready for another .21 (so taking a look at that--as well as some others). I still cannot believe how monstrous that clocked Nova P5 is--you saw it. I never imagined a P5 could RPM like that. Damn.

Still suggest you get your pulse on that LRP...so you can compare.. Nothing wrong with having multiple engines. I almost have twice as many as vehicles...and swap them in and out all the time.

Oh, and you and I will be running the same clutch in our Savages! I have four of those M2C var wt flywheel setups. They are a PIA to switch out shoes but will be running that with my Nova due to all the tuning options it provides. Call Mitch Looper if you have questions on it...he is also great to work with!

 

[gablett]

You will love it for sure. Never owned a Picco but have heard ridiculous things about that clocked 28. Neal at CRE was telling me he has that Team Spec 21 like butter....I have a clocked Nova 28-5/41001 on its way and once I get that beasting in my Savage....I will be ready for another .21 (so taking a look at that--as well as some others). I still cannot believe how monstrous that clocked Nova P5 is--you saw it. I never imagined a P5 could RPM like that. Damn.

Still suggest you get your pulse on that LRP...so you can compare.. Nothing wrong with having multiple engines. I almost have twice as many as vehicles...and swap them in and out all the time.

Oh, and you and I will be running the same clutch in our Savages! I have four of those M2C var wt flywheel setups. They are a PIA to switch out shoes but will be running that with my Nova due to all the tuning options it provides. Call Mitch Looper if you have questions on it...he is also great to work with!

Any chance u could shoot me an email on those clutches and educate me with what u know. Since they are in the same vehicle with similar engine would be nice to gain some insight. I got the hard shoes he recommended.

 

[Nitro Nerd]

Sure...happy to tell you what I've learned. Keep in mind most of my experience comes from truggies/buggies, so I am still working through how to augment it with a slipper clutch..and man I love that slipper clutch!.

I am starting with 95 springs all around. It's all about timing. Basically you want to smooth out and tame the bottom end and deliver all the power the engine offers at the right time. Also, just as a good clutch setup will help you, and bad one will hurt you. I see a lot of guys wonder why they cannot tune their engine and it is because they have the wrong clutch setup.

The stock springs with the Savage X 4.6 are supposed to be 1mm, but I was getting consistent .9mm readings from my digital caps (and they felt like .9mm). Again, I'm real curious about clutch setups in these MTs. I've learned once your tune good and traction sufficient, ALL you need to do is dial in your slipper clutch and you can pop-wheelies all day long. You put the right clutch setup on it and dial back your slipper clutch....you can take off like a rocket and not even lift the nose. I can do 2nd gear wheelies everyone seems to like just by adjusting it, etc. And that is all with the stock F4.6.

I see people start leaning out there engine to do wheelies. Those guys should lean it out because it needs it...not to do wheelies. If anyone has some good tips on clutch setups with the Savage (or MTs in general, I would love to here them--as I want to learn all I can).

When I tune a buggy/truggy, I spring up expecting to hear a lag. It basically gives me a baseline by being just outside of a desired parameter (much like stock needle settings on an engine) I run a lot of different clutches, and M2C great. In fact, they are probably my all-around favorite RC manufacturer in general. They are pretty damn creative.

 

[gablett]

No-no...you can get it. Let's try this another way....as perhaps I'm not articulating correctly or....but want to help. Below is a succinct version of how I tune. As noted, I am still learning (and sure I will for many years to come). Definitely follow NitroJedi's advice...I KNOW he knows what he's doing (to the point it's almost scary). I don't know Bobahloo, but he seems very savvy at tuning as well...so definitely welcome both their feedback below. If I am off on one, two, or ALL items below they can chime in again. If I'm wrong on everything I'll wonder how they hell I got my engines to run the way they do...but hey, I always look to improve....and hope to help as well what I am learning--instead of being an internet critic. ;-)

My hope is this will at least get your started in the right direction:

1. I put the needles back to stock (or at least close enough to where it's rich but keep the vehicle running). This includes idle-stop, which is usually 1-1.5mm.

2. I start the engine....then after about 15-20 seconds pinch the fuel line near the inlet to get an idea how off my LSN is. Looking for smooth RPM increase and for it to stall around 7 seconds. This is not me tuning the LSN...but just getting in the ball-park.

2. I run the vehicle on the terrain I'm going to run until it's heat-saturated. They all differ, but my Nova's and OS 25xz seem to take at least two tanks. Thus I would not tune on pavement then run it on a track.

3. I tune the HSN first. I'm simply wanting to get in the RPM range where I'm comfortable.

4. I run it more, and listen to the what happens after WOT (when I let off the throttle). If the RPMs carry on...I richen my HSN a bit.

5. At this point my engine idle is almost always two-staging and idle is high...but that is okay. I do another hard pass and then let it sit and listen to the idle. Normally the idle will be high, then will drop after a few seconds..or when i blip the throttle.

6. I lean the LSN about 1/16 of a turn, and repeat #5 above. Typically the idle will be high, then drop after say 10 seconds. I continue this process ensuring that the time it takes for the idle to drop is increased. So normally at around the 20 second mark I'm good.

7. So at this point I have a engine that has good RPMs and after WOT does not run on, and the idle stays high for about 20 seconds.

8. Then I lay down my idle. I don't measure it...but it's normally around .7-.8mm.

9. I run it again...if, after WOT the idle rises....I'm usually too lean on bottom so adjust and then . As I've stated many, many times...it's about the idle-stop/LSN. There are times I'll need to revisit the HSN as well.

10. Once I have a crisp take off (no big puffs of smoke) I begin to listen to my clutch. By that, depending on my traction and clutch setting....I might need to spring up or down. For example, if, when I take off and I lag (the RPMs increase but remain static OR I am breaking traction)...then I spring down. Just like with the idle, you can listen to your engine to help determine the torque delivery for your clutch setup

This is my basic tune. It sounds easy, but there are a slew of variables and it's taken me a long time (longer than most people I imagine) to become consistent with this.

I am not saying this is the RIGHT method...just what I do. As noted I welcome feedback if I am going in the right direction or mis-informing myself. My intent is to help give you a general understanding.

Thx

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

I followed this exactly and wow night and day. When you hit that sweet spot it's night and day. Your totally right about warming it up completely. Wouldn't really hold a tune until halfway through tank 2. I was actually too lean up top and rich on the bottom. Now this thing hits hard. It definitely lacks up top. But that's where I think this picco will be the best of both world. But I can't thank you enough for writing something up that really makes sense! On pavement I can't go full throttle til partway thru 2nd or it stands straight up. This engine is a runner. I can't wait to see what a clocked picco can do!

---------- Post added at 1:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 1:37 AM ----------

Oh and that torco fuel is way better than traxxas crap!

 

[Nitro Nerd]

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

I followed this exactly and wow night and day. When you hit that sweet spot it's night and day. Your totally right about warming it up completely. Wouldn't really hold a tune until halfway through tank 2. I was actually too lean up top and rich on the bottom. Now this thing hits hard. It definitely lacks up top. But that's where I think this picco will be the best of both world. But I can't thank you enough for writing something up that really makes sense! On pavement I can't go full throttle til partway thru 2nd or it stands straight up. This engine is a runner. I can't wait to see what a clocked picco can do!

---------- Post added at 1:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 1:37 AM ----------

Rock-n-roll. ;-)

 

[gablett]

So I was running the truck tonight and I'm pretty confident in my tune. Runs strong and no hesitation. Only weird part is this. If I keep it going it runs awesome. It idles down nice and will idle literally forever. But if I let is sit there for 10-15 seconds and don't do anything it seems to load up on fuel. Like if I try to blip the throttle it'll almost 4 stroke and most of the time die. But if I feather the throttle it'll come through it but leaves a big cloud of smoke. And have bad throttle response till I get that burned off. So naturally I think its the LSN. But if I do the pinch test it dies in 4-5 seconds. Hardly even has a chance to idle up much. So that would tell me if anything its lean. It has great response when I stay on it and has no other signs of the LSN being off. Any ideas or is that sort of normal? Thanks!

 

[Nitro Nerd]

So I was running the truck tonight and I'm pretty confident in my tune. Runs strong and no hesitation. Only weird part is this. If I keep it going it runs awesome. It idles down nice and will idle literally forever. But if I let is sit there for 10-15 seconds and don't do anything it seems to load up on fuel. Like if I try to blip the throttle it'll almost 4 stroke and most of the time die. But if I feather the throttle it'll come through it but leaves a big cloud of smoke. And have bad throttle response till I get that burned off. So naturally I think its the LSN. But if I do the pinch test it dies in 4-5 seconds. Hardly even has a chance to idle up much. So that would tell me if anything its lean. It has great response when I stay on it and has no other signs of the LSN being off. Any ideas or is that sort of normal? Thanks!

From my experience that is normal. Just make sure that it doesn't lower down, then rise back up with the ting-ting-ting. Anything else and I start to over-analyze and get myself in a jam. I mean obviously there are keys...just suggesting not to over-think it too much. Check with HulkMaxx. I believe he is the local LRP expert.

 

[gablett]

So I decided to get the ramp out for the first time. This thing jumps way easier than I even thought it would. Very controllable, and predictable. Smooth in the air, and this is where the 45 weight oil shined big time. I dont think it ever even bottomed out with these size jumps. Gonna work my way up to backflips, but I dont think they will be too difficult as well as it flies. It takes a beating and I had zero issues. can't wait to see how it performs with the Clocked Picco.

This Torco fuel is way better than Traxxas, anyone who uses traxxas do yourself a favor and ditch it!

Also shortening the fuel lines didnt cure the mid tank lean 100% but I would say its 80% better. Good enough that thats all I'm gonna do for it.

Videos:

http://s842.photobucket.com/user/gablett_photo/media/IMG_1015_zps236d8638.mp4.html
http://s842.photobucket.com/user/gablett_photo/media/IMG_1018_zpsc079f1b7.mp4.html

 

[Alexander_0_1]

A longer fuel line give you a few extra seconds to flip you rig over before you starve it for fuel, then it stalls and have to re-prime.

If you search DreamMachines he's got a few ways of limiting 1/2 tank lean, or out right eliminating it. You'll have to use the search button, it's been some time since I've seen that thread.

Next time can you hold your phone horizontally, just for me please.

 

[bobaloohoo]

A longer fuel line give you a few extra seconds to flip you rig over before you starve it for fuel, then it stalls and have to re-prime.

If you search DreamMachines he's got a few ways of limiting 1/2 tank lean, or out right eliminating it. You'll have to use the search button, it's been some time since I've seen that thread.

Next time can you hold your phone horizontally, just for me please.

I've eliminated my half tank leaning issue just by using longer fuel lines, i wasn't even aiming to eliminate it by doing this, i was just getting some new fuel lines! and bam, no more problems for me. should try it! cheap easy fix

 

[gablett]

Mine was shorter and fixed it. I was worried about how long it would run flipped upside down. Its definitely shorter, but it never quit on me, always had plenty of time to get to it.

Yea after watching it back I wish I had held it the other way, but I have a Canon handheld HD camcorder coming that will solve that issue lol.

 

[Nitro Nerd]

Great job, Gardner! It looks really good and handles itself well in the air. Jumping off grass can be like driving on ice sometimes..very hard to line up. I imagine when you get your clocked Picco you will be doing back-flips with ease ;-) Keep an eye on those hinge pins. Your sway bar kit will capture the upper ones, but the lower ones can sometimes go through the plastic stops in the bump skid (has happened to me twice). Also if using those RPM lower arms ensure you have a 3mm washer around the shock eyelet screw. Once when jumping it popped loose (because I had a 5mm washer)...the shaft went inside the wheel an bent. ;-(

The only time I've ever broken/bent anything on my Savage is when jumping--well, actually landing. However, the reason I got it was to jump it. Anyway, you done good.

[URL=http://s1368.photobucket.com/user/mylittlepony/media/Savage_zpseb93b3e6.png.html][IMG]http://i1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag196/mylittlepony/Savage_zpseb93b3e6.png[/URL][/IMG]

Regarding MTL, I was able to get a HellFire tank. I'm not sure if longer fuel lines is the answer. I say this because there have been some heavy hitters in the nitro rc world analyze this and if the simple answer were longer fuel lines, well.... I doubt the HellFire tank will fix it all as well, but that will be what I work from (since I dislike the newer Savage tank lids anyway).

 

[gablett]

Great job, Gardner! It looks really good and handles itself well in the air. Jumping off grass can be like driving on ice sometimes..very hard to line up. I imagine when you get your clocked Picco you will be doing back-flips with ease ;-) Keep an eye on those hinge pins. Your sway bar kit will capture the upper ones, but the lower ones can sometimes go through the plastic stops in the bump skid (has happened to me twice). Also if using those RPM lower arms ensure you have a 3mm washer around the shock eyelet screw. Once when jumping it popped loose (because I had a 5mm washer)...the shaft went inside the wheel an bent. ;-(

The only time I've ever broken/bent anything on my Savage is when jumping--well, actually landing. However, the reason I got it was to jump it. Anyway, you done good.

[URL=http://s1368.photobucket.com/user/mylittlepony/media/Savage_zpseb93b3e6.png.html][IMG]http://i1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag196/mylittlepony/Savage_zpseb93b3e6.png[/URL][/IMG]

Regarding MTL, I was able to get a HellFire tank. I'm not sure if longer fuel lines is the answer. I say this because there have been some heavy hitters in the nitro rc world analyze this and if the simple answer were longer fuel lines, well.... I doubt the HellFire tank will fix it all as well, but that will be what I work from (since I dislike the newer Savage tank lids anyway).

It is exactly like driving on ice lol. Super hard to get lined up well. Same here, thats why I got it, to jump the crap out of it.

Let me know how the hellfire tank works.

Forgot the finishing touch.

 

[WoodiE]

Now that is one GOOD looking savage body!