kanai diff set up

[gripit n ripit]

Hello to all first post so bare with me.
i was thinking about running the (tcd) in the front of my kanai-2
5k in the center and 1k in the rear. Has anyone ran this set ? If so how did it handle in and out of corners? the tracks i run on are hard packed but sometimes can get a little loose. Right now i am running open diffs all around 5k up front 7k in center and 1k in the rear. It handles good now but we are always in search of better. Any suggestions will be helpful. Thanks in advance

 

[uDi_MP7.5]

Some people prefer the LSD's for smoother, higher traction tracks, and the standard for rougher ones - but when it comes down to it, it's a matter of preference, you really just have to try it and see whether you like it or not. Most people either like them or don't.

I've got 1 LSD in the front of my K2, and it seemed to work fine (havent run it much yet though to be honest), but I ran standard diffs all round on my other 7.5, and that went great also.

so yeah, just try it and see, if you can borrow someones for a bit then all the merrier.

good luck

 

[militarymaxx]

I too run the LSD's all the way around with 7-10-5. I just bumped it up from 5-7-1. Not much difference in the corners, but the straightaway speeds have improved. I saw a guy run a buggy with TCD's in the front and center and he swore by them. But I didn't see it on the track we were running on. It's a short, technical track where one would think a TCD would shine. But I just didn't see it. Because of the price of these things, I need more info and some hard performance data. The biggest improvement I ever saw was going from a basic greased diff to one filled with oil. Man what a change !

 

[Krautwagen]

The TCD diff is not a real LSD type diff. The major difference between the TCD and a regular diff is the metal holders for the planetary gears and the supplied Kyosho fluid. I don't know why they call it a LSD The metal planetary gear holders just distribute the load on the cup (instead of the shaft digging into it). Anyway, they are badass diffs that'll last quite a while.

 

[militarymaxx]

I found some data on TCD's comparing them to standard/LS diffs and just like uDi_MP7.5 had already mentioned on straightaway runs where traction managment isn't as big a concern, there is no noticeable difference between them. It's in the corners where the boys are separated from the men. I would love a set (center/front), but the ones I want made by Fioroni are something like $250 a piece. An investment like that would have to make a big improvement for me or I'll stick with what I have.

 

[Krautwagen]

BTW, the TCD diffs can be had on ebay for about $60 each brand new. Ipicked up a set for my savage, but sold them to help fund my 1/8th purchase

 

[Error401]

Originally posted by Krautwagen
The TCD diff is not a real LSD type diff. The major difference between the TCD and a regular diff is the metal holders for the planetary gears and the supplied Kyosho fluid. I don't know why they call it a LSD The metal planetary gear holders just distribute the load on the cup (instead of the shaft digging into it). Anyway, they are badass diffs that'll last quite a while.

I think the Kyosho LSD works by the friction between the spiders and the holders. Apply power or brakes and the friction between them increases, and thus makes the diff act like it's got heavier weight oil in them. My K3 has one in the front and on bone dry baseball diamonds where it's hardpack under loose dusty soil, it's hard to do doughnuts. 180 slide tuns are a blast. WOT, brake, turn hard, jab throttle again, touch of counter steer and it's headed back the other way. My old Lightning would have been spinning all over the place in a barely controlable fassion.

I'm running bone stock oils, red up front, 4K center and 1K rear. I think I'll go up to 7L and 5K center and rear when I pull them next time.

 

[gripit n ripit]

kanai diffs

thanks for all the useful info. I built a tcd for the front lastnight and I will drop in tommorrow and give it a try.Iwill post my results when i fire it up. Also how do I go about posting some pics?
Thanks again

 

[flash183]

It looks like the gears of the standard and TCD are made of different types of metal. What's the deal with that?

What does TCD stand for anyway?

 

[Error401]

They are. The TCD metal parts look like a very high grade of steel that is hardened (moreso than regular gears).

Traction Control Differential. Or Limited Slip Diff (LSD).

 

[militarymaxx]

Error - hook a brother up. Are all the buggy TCD's compatible with my Storm ? The fioroni ones are top dollar but I've seen less expensive ones out there. Is there an industry standard ?

 

[Error401]

It sure seems like diffs are standard sizes. The diff cups out of my Savage look exactly like the ones that came with my K3. The lightning had the same ones too. I haven't looked in a Fioroni TCD so I have no idea what the guts of those look like, but the LSD gears for a K3 should drop into your existing diff. The parts that were different are the spider gears, the blocks the spiders ride in, the cross pins, the bevel gears and the output drive cross pins. I'd have to do some digging to get a parts list together, but I think that's all you would need to convert a regular diff to a Kyosho LSD.

 

[militarymaxx]

OK, I'm a little confused. Isn't a standard diff and a LSD the same thing? I'm under the impression that my stock Storm diffs are LSD's. I know what a LSD looks like, and I know what a TCD looks like, but am unclear what a 'standard' diff looks like. At least on the inside. My next question is, can I turn a LSD into a TCD by simply swapping out the guts ? And to further clarify the different makes of TCD's, specifically are the OFNA TCD's the same as the Fioroni TCD's as far as fitting inside my bulkheads ? Alot to chew on but I think I got a little off track regarding the different type of diffs. Thanks.

 

[Error401]

I haven't really gone into much depth as far was the other makes of diffs. I do know that the front diff in a Kanai 3 is called a limited slip diff (LSD) by Koysho. I always understood a standard diff to be ones that are like the Savage diffs, and the center and rear on the K3 and all three in a lightning. I've heard of Torsen diffs that are supposed to have helical cut gearing, but I have yet to fondle one myself. I hear that they are bad news for offroad applications.

 

[militarymaxx]

After reading a bunch of data on LSD's and TCD's (some of this stuff is Rocket Science), I know this much:

-In a straight line there are no benefits/difference in performance between them.

-In a corner where the inside wheel might come off the ground, a LSD will apply the majority of engine power to the wheel with the least resistance (the inside wheel).

-Same condition as above, a TCD will spread the power between the wheels giving the wheel with the most resistance more power.

How many times have we tried to drive over the coping at a track and get caught at some angle where both rear wheels are firmly on the ground, one front wheel is touching the coping and the other front wheel is free from touching anyting. When we gas it, that free wheel spins it's a** off. This is the nature of a LSD. This condition would never happen with TCD's.

 

[Error401]

Symantics. All I know is that when I'm on the power, or on the brakes, my K3 acts like the weight of diff oil in the front goes up almost to the point where it's like it has a spool in the front diff. I've had to relearn driving buggies when I got away from the lightning and got the K. Ask EP about his K1, it has two (center and front).

 

[militarymaxx]

I hear ya. I'm seeing improvements as well with different oil choices. Like I said earlier, I saw a guy with TCD's both up front and in the center and I was running quicker, more consistent laps than he was. I read something in the new Radio Control Car Action (JUNE 04), where they were talking about turbo glow plugs and it kind of relates to TCD's and other high end upgrades.
I quote, "The increase is lost on all but the most experienced racers and engine tuners." Maybe in the hands of a Greg Dagani a TCD would make a difference, but not mine. Together, I think you have answered my question regarding the upgrading to TCD's. Probably not. What we need is viscosity sensitive diff oil where as RPM's go up, so does the thickness. That would be cool.
At low speeds it would act like 1000 wt but at WOT it would increase to 100,000. K, back to reality.

 

[Error401]

Originally posted by militarymaxx
What we need is viscosity sensitive diff oil where as RPM's go up, so does the thickness. That would be cool. At low speeds it would act like 1000 wt but at WOT it would increase to 100,000. K, back to reality.

That's exactly what the front diff in my K3 acts like. But it has to do with torque being applied to the diff from the engine and not rpm of the diff itself.

You might have missed my thread on running my K on the baseball diamond recently. Nearly concrete hardpack with a covering of bone dry dusty snady soil on top. (ie a baseball diamond). The K was fully controlable no matter what I did to it. Doughnuts were hard to get into and a snap to get out of, in a controlable fasion. My old lightning on the other hand was the complete opposite. Squirely and sometimes difficult to control on track conditions like that. I attribute it mostly to the LSD diff in the front.

On watered sticky tracks, it's a different story. The K has too much grip and often understeers on the large dirt oval in the corners. Also due to the LSD diff. When the track dries out a bit I can get it to drift in those turns and all is good. but the track owner keeps it watered most of the time.

 

[militarymaxx]

I'll have to find that post and read up. This is unrelated to this post but since you are Staff, can you tell me when "contributing member" will show up under my nick ? I just donated a few minutes ago, paid up an all. Just wondering. Thanks.

 

[Krautwagen]

Open differential - your standard diffs. As the pinion spins the ring gear, either side can rotate. One side can stand still while the other spins. The 'power' follows the path of least resistance, so the wheel with the least traction will spin faster and faster.

LSD - LIMITED slip differential. The design of the diff does not allow one side to spin much faster than the other. Usually there is only about a 20% difference allowed in speeds (on 1:1 cars anyway). So if you are stuck on the coping or in the mud, the wheel with the least traction will spin faster, but only by a small amount, so the wheel with the most traction can power you out. This also translates to cornering and accelerating in straight lines. Having an LSD up front will pull the front end through the corners, rather than just coasting around and having a tendency to push through the corner. They do help with acceleration too, both wheels will spin and hook up rather than one wheel spinning it's arse off.

Spool/locker - This will lock both sides of the diff together. Great for rock crawling MT's, mud bogs, and drag racing. No turning though.