ESC question that hopefully has a simple answer.

[STONER RC]

The Arrma Granite for example, running 4wd with big tires and a 100A ESC is not that big a deal because the truck by itself weighs nothing. Now if it had an aluminum chassis, metal CVD's, aluminum bracing and shock towers, that would be a whole different ballgame.

I am not familiar with the other kits mentioned that use 60A ESC's, but they are probably exactly the same - lightweight RC's.

But those ESC's have been engineered to run in those rigs - just barely, more than likely. If you pulled one of those ESC's and stuck in another rig, with more friction from the drivetrain, more weight, etc, that same ESC is likely going to overheat and die a slow death.

So... go big, or go home is I guess the best advice I can give. Face the facts. RC is not a cheap hobby. If you are buying cheap RC stuff, plan on buying more of it.

100% agree with that sir...but see there's always info left out. From ones arguments and the losi 60amp esc isn't used I a dam 4wd sct.. here check it out ignorance is bliss.... every dam losi rc is a 2wd SCT with brushed motor.. need to get the correct equipment to use in the rc you are using. And more then likely wouldn't have. Problem do research it's not hard. 4wd is way more strain on the esc... then a 2wd rc

http://www.losi.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=LOS03013T1

http://www.losi.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=LOS03022T1

http://www.losi.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=LOS03022T2

 

[Greywolf74]

Then someone should tell AE that, since their 1/10TH 4WD's run a 60A Reedy SC600 ESC, and, when the Losi Tenacity first came out brushless, that was also a 60A Dynamite Fuze ESC. Even Arrma used to send 3S trucks with only an 80A, and is currently only a 100A, and that is the one they use in all the 3S stuff. Even my Losi 22S has a 60A Dynamite Fuze paired with a 3300KV 3650 motor, so, no, they dont have to have a 120A ESC. As for the pile of burnt up ESC's i have, except for the Castle that got fried, all of those are cheap GoolRC and Surpass Hobby chinese ones. Since i bought my first WP 10BL60 RTR 2 years ago, i have only fried one of them, and that was due to my own negligence.

What makes you think those Reedy ESCs are 60A ESCs? I can't find any documentation from Associated or anyone else for that matter that says what its Amp rating actually is. I'm not saying it isnt 60A but I'm just wondering how you know that cuz I can't verify what the amp rating of it is.

Also, Even if the statement that the Losi Tenacity originally came with a 60A ESC is true, which I have doubts about, they obviously learned from their mistake because now it comes with a 130A Dynamite Fuze ESC.

 

[biggman100]

100% agree with that sir...but see there's always info left out. From ones arguments and the losi 60amp esc isn't used I a dam 4wd sct.. here check it out ignorance is bliss.... every dam losi rc is a 2wd SCT with brushed motor.. need to get the correct equipment to use in the rc you are using. And more then likely wouldn't have. Problem do research it's not hard. 4wd is way more strain on the esc... then a 2wd rc

http://www.losi.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=LOS03013T1

http://www.losi.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=LOS03022T1

http://www.losi.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=LOS03022T2

Every Losi is NOT a brushed 2WD SCT. Take a look at these: http://www.losi.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=LOS03010T1
http://www.losi.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=LOS03019T1
http://www.losi.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=LOS03020T1 and there is a brushless 22S sitting on my shelf: http://www.losi.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=LOS03013T2

What makes you think those Reedy ESCs are 60A ESCs? I can't find any documentation from Associated or anyone else for that matter that says what its Amp rating actually is. I'm not saying it isnt 60A but I'm just wondering how you know that cuz I can't verify what the amp rating of it is.

Also, Even if the statement that the Losi Tenacity originally came with a 60A ESC is true, which I have doubts about, they obviously learned from their mistake because now it comes with a 130A Dynamite Fuze ESC.

I am seriously starting to think you have never owned any of these vehicles. Yes the current crop of Losi stuff has the Dynamite 130, which a quick internet search will point out but, i have 2 Losi vehicles that are more than a year old, that have the older 60A ESC, not the newer 130A. Take a close look at the specs for this truck: http://www.losi.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=LOS03013T2 That same ESC is used in not only the 22S, but also the original Tenacity, both of which i currently have. In fact, every new brushless vehicle i have ever bought only has a 60A ESC (Losi tenacity, Racers Edge Pro2, Losi 22S), which is why all of my vehicles that i didnt buy new, i just matched the specs (same amp ESC, same KV motor), except for on the two trucks that started this whole thing. What started this whole thing is that i put the same 60A ESC in 2 DHK Hobby Hunters, but, paired them with a 3660 3800KV motor, and on those two trucks, i have an issue where after roughly 5 minutes, i have to turn them off, wait a minute, then turn them back on, so, i wondered if the motor was too big for that ESC, or if it could possibly be something else, but, like always, since i am not willing to buy race spec crap i dont need, all i get are a bunch of arguments here.

You said "HW WP 10BL50 and a 3652 3250KV, that barely has enough power to move my ECX Torment," Well the HW WP 10BL50 is a 45A ESC. So are you saying thats a typo? Even if it was a 60A ESC, thats not much better. Start running at least 80A ESCs on your 1/10 scale 2WD stuff and at least 120A on 4WD 1/10 scale and see if that doesn't make a huge difference.

It had that ESC for all of 3 days. Now, it has the same WP 10BL60 RTR that every other vehicle i have has.

All manufacturers use cheap ass barely gets the job done electronics. Why do you think people tend to burn them up and replace them rather quickly the majority of the time?

I must be an exception to this, since, the only electronics i ever burn up are the cheap GoolRC ESC's that come in the combo's (oh, and the Castle that someone convinced me to waste money on a couple years ago). I still have the stock electronics from my Racers Edge Pro2 that i bought in 2012 that still work.

 

[biggman100]

All i was looking for in this was, is there a simple chart to follow that pairs a specific ESC, say a 60A, with a specific range of motors, nothing more, nothing less. If not, then fine, ill just go back to trial and error, like i always have.

 

[WickedFog]

Every Losi is NOT a brushed 2WD SCT. Take a look at these: http://www.losi.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=LOS03010T1
http://www.losi.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=LOS03019T1
http://www.losi.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=LOS03020T1 and there is a brushless 22S sitting on my shelf: http://www.losi.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=LOS03013T2

I am seriously starting to think you have never owned any of these vehicles. Yes the current crop of Losi stuff has the Dynamite 130, which a quick internet search will point out but, i have 2 Losi vehicles that are more than a year old, that have the older 60A ESC, not the newer 130A. Take a close look at the specs for this truck: http://www.losi.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=LOS03013T2 That same ESC is used in not only the 22S, but also the original Tenacity, both of which i currently have. In fact, every new brushless vehicle i have ever bought only has a 60A ESC (Losi tenacity, Racers Edge Pro2, Losi 22S), which is why all of my vehicles that i didnt buy new, i just matched the specs (same amp ESC, same KV motor), except for on the two trucks that started this whole thing. What started this whole thing is that i put the same 60A ESC in 2 DHK Hobby Hunters, but, paired them with a 3660 3800KV motor, and on those two trucks, i have an issue where after roughly 5 minutes, i have to turn them off, wait a minute, then turn them back on, so, i wondered if the motor was too big for that ESC, or if it could possibly be something else, but, like always, since i am not willing to buy race spec crap i dont need, all i get are a bunch of arguments here.

It had that ESC for all of 3 days. Now, it has the same WP 10BL60 RTR that every other vehicle i have has.

I must be an exception to this, since, the only electronics i ever burn up are the cheap GoolRC ESC's that come in the combo's (oh, and the Castle that someone convinced me to waste money on a couple years ago). I still have the stock electronics from my Racers Edge Pro2 that i bought in 2012 that still work.

I think what you are running into is you are underpowering some of your rigs by looking at things the wrong way. Every RC is different, and just because an RC is running a 60A does not mean you can just take that and stick in any other rig with a similar drivetrain. Like Greywolf has stated, nearly every single RTR comes with electronics that barely gets the job done. Yes, those electronics may last for years. But that doesn't mean swapping it to a new rig will have the same results.

You got the advice, then threw up reasons why you shouldn't take the advice by saying "well this car and that car run 60A ESC's", as if to say you don't need a 120A ESC. Not sure what else you want people to say other thsn keep trying the 60A. Maybe you'll get lucky and find one that works.

All i was looking for in this was, is there a simple chart to follow that pairs a specific ESC, say a 60A, with a specific range of motors, nothing more, nothing less. If not, then fine, ill just go back to trial and error, like i always have.

The amp rating of the ESC has nothing to do with a range of motors. It has to do with the load being put on it based on the motor, the vehicle's weight, gearing, tire size (rotational mass), etc. There is your answer. No, there is not a chart for that.

 

[biggman100]

I think what you are running into is you are underpowering some of your rigs by looking at things the wrong way. Every RC is different, and just because an RC is running a 60A does not mean you can just take that and stick in any other rig with a similar drivetrain. Like Greywolf has stated, nearly every single RTR comes with electronics that barely gets the job done. Yes, those electronics may last for years. But that doesn't mean swapping it to a new rig will have the same results.

You got the advice, then threw up reasons why you shouldn't take the advice by saying "well this car and that car run 60A ESC's", as if to say you don't need a 120A ESC. Not sure what else you want people to say other thsn keep trying the 60A. Maybe you'll get lucky and find one that works.

All i need is to know what motor will work to run that specific vehicle, since, the 120A that those two keep pushing, by the time i buy the ESC, the wire, the solder, and pay the $45 an hour the guy who solders for me charges, each one of those ESC will cost me $100 or more, and, since i have 6 trucks i run quite often, that is over $600 just in ESC's, that i can not afford. On top of that, the only time i have ever seen anyone run one of those ESC's in the conditions i run in, it fried. I typically and routinely bury my vehicles up to the body in water in the winter, and still have only had one of the WP 10BL60 RTR's fry, because i forgot to unplug the fan. I did find an Arrma BLX100 for the price i pay for the WP 10BL60 RTR, but, i have heard they are hit or miss in winter conditions.

The amp rating of the ESC has nothing to do with a range of motors. It has to do with the load being put on it based on the motor, the vehicle's weight, gearing, tire size (rotational mass), etc. There is your answer. No, there is not a chart for that.

I have been trying to get this simple answer for more than a year. On the two trucks in question, i put the Castle 3800KV motor in that one, and, in the other one, i am going to switch the 3660 3800KV that is in it with a 3660 3300KV, and, if that dont work, I'm just going to buy a pair of Arrma BLX100's, since i can buy two of those for less than what 1 HW 10BL120 will ultimately cost me. As for how i typically run my vehicles, this is my 22S on a typical summer day:

I dont have any pics of my stuff in snow, but, i plan to this winter.

 

[Doom!]

All this stuff seems complicated to me. I am not an analytical person, math and I have never gotten along, so all the little formulas for gearing, amps etc. lose me along the way. I know it should all make sense but I'm not wired that way. I usually just do what feels right, sometimes I win, sometimes I lose. I tend to stick with stock unless it's a proven como that has worked for several others. I understand wondering if there was a chart with workable combos. I also understand that with all the variables it would be hard to do.

Just try and remember, this is supposed to be fun, sometimes things are frustrating, but we are all here for the same reason.

 

[biggman100]

The amp rating of the ESC has nothing to do with a range of motors. It has to do with the load being put on it based on the motor, the vehicle's weight, gearing, tire size (rotational mass), etc. There is your answer. No, there is not a chart for that.

I get the whole weight, gearing, tire size thing from the 1:1 race cars, but, i have never figured it out for RC stuff, because i have never bothered to put that much thought in it. The one thing I'm starting to realize though, maybe i should just stick with 2WD SCT's, since they always work for me. They just suck in snow, which is the only reason i bought the 4WD stuff. I currently have 4 4WD (Losi Tenacity, Arrma Granite, DHK Hobby Hunter, DHK Hobby Wolf 2) vehicles, and only one of those, the Wolf 2 ever gets run in summer.

All this stuff seems complicated to me. I am not an analytical person, math and I have never gotten along, so all the little formulas for gearing, amps etc. lose me along the way. I know it should all make sense but I'm not wired that way. I usually just do what feels right, sometimes I win, sometimes I lose. I tend to stick with stock unless it's a proven como that has worked for several others. I understand wondering if there was a chart with workable combos. I also understand that with all the variables it would be hard to do.

Just try and remember, this is supposed to be fun, sometimes things are frustrating, but we are all here for the same reason.

A lot of it i get, since i own 1:1 race cars, but, with those, there are charts for what motor, what tire size, and what gear will do what, so its a lot easier. For RC I always stick with what the manufacturers do, since i figure they put all that work into it to figure everything out. Apparently though, what used to work for 4WD doesn't anymore, so I'm stuck either spending money i dont have, or not running them, which is what it is actually coming down to.

For me, its less about fun, and more about frustration relief. I beat on the RC stuff, since beating on the 1:1 cars when they piss me off is way too expensive. I actually take my 2WD SCT's to the track with me, so when i get annoyed, i can go out back of the track and run them in the field that is there, just so i dont beat the race car to death. Its my own form of anger management.

 

[WickedFog]

I get the whole weight, gearing, tire size thing from the 1:1 race cars, but, i have never figured it out for RC stuff, because i have never bothered to put that much thought in it. The one thing I'm starting to realize though, maybe i should just stick with 2WD SCT's, since they always work for me. They just suck in snow, which is the only reason i bought the 4WD stuff. I currently have 4 4WD (Losi Tenacity, Arrma Granite, DHK Hobby Hunter, DHK Hobby Wolf 2) vehicles, and only one of those, the Wolf 2 ever gets run in summer.

It's not an exact science, unless you are one of those nerdy types of course. It's all a bit of a guessing game, which is why bigger is better. One thing you can do if budget minded is watch Tower Hobbies for sales on HW stuff. I get emails often from them with HW sales. Maybe you can get a good deal there. They also have coupons.

 

[biggman100]

It's not an exact science, unless you are one of those nerdy types of course. It's all a bit of a guessing game, which is why bigger is better. One thing you can do if budget minded is watch Tower Hobbies for sales on HW stuff. I get emails often from them with HW sales. Maybe you can get a good deal there. They also have coupons.

Someone pointed me to Jenny's RC, and that's where i found the Arrma BLX100 for $42, so i might just get one of those next week and see what it does.

I get emails often from them with HW sales. Maybe you can get a good deal there. They also have coupons.

The big issue there is that, the only HW120A i have ever seen needs wires soldered on it, and, the only guy around here who does it charges $45 to solder the wires to it, if you bring him the stuff. My brother wont do it for me anymore, since he does it all the time at work, and on the 1:1 cars, so any savings i might gain, i lose in that.

 

[Greywolf74]

Every Losi is NOT a brushed 2WD SCT. Take a look at these: http://www.losi.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=LOS03010T1
http://www.losi.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=LOS03019T1
http://www.losi.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=LOS03020T1 and there is a brushless 22S sitting on my shelf: http://www.losi.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=LOS03013T2

Not sure why you're pointing out all their 4WD rigs when Stoner was talking about 2WD rigs? Granted only 2 out of the 3 2WD rigs are brushed.
http://www.losi.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=LOS03013T2

I am seriously starting to think you have never owned any of these vehicles.

I never claimed to own any of these kits youve mentioned. How many kits do I need to have owned in order to have a qualified opinion on electric RCs? I just want to know when I can stop listing them.

Yes the current crop of Losi stuff has the Dynamite 130, which a quick internet search will point out but, i have 2 Losi vehicles that are more than a year old, that have the older 60A ESC, not the newer 130A. Take a close look at the specs for this truck: http://www.losi.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=LOS03013T2 That same ESC is used in not only the 22S, but also the original Tenacity, both of which i currently have. In fact, every new brushless vehicle i have ever bought only has a 60A ESC (Losi tenacity, Racers Edge Pro2, Losi 22S), which is why all of my vehicles that i didnt buy new, i just matched the specs (same amp ESC, same KV motor), except for on the two trucks that started this whole thing.

The main point that I was making was that even IF the tenacity did come with a 60A ESC originally then Losi clearly learned their lesson because now it comes with a 130A ESC. Nothing you said here negates my point which is that 4WD rigs need bigger ESCs than 2WD rigs.

What started this whole thing is that i put the same 60A ESC in 2 DHK Hobby Hunters, but, paired them with a 3660 3800KV motor, and on those two trucks, i have an issue where after roughly 5 minutes, i have to turn them off, wait a minute, then turn them back on, so, i wondered if the motor was too big for that ESC, or if it could possibly be something else,

Right, so you took ESCs that were barely adequate for 2WD rigs and put them in 4WD rigs which are way more power hungry than 2WD rigs. Yet you're surprised that it doesn't work right in either rig. Theyre clearly hitting either a thermal cut off or tripping the over current circuit which is causing the intermittent cut outs that you are experiencing. Thats why everyone in this thread has all said that you need higher amperage ESCs but you dont want to listen.

but, like always, since i am not willing to buy race spec crap i dont need, all i get are a bunch of arguments here.

No one here or any any other thread told you to buy race quality electronics. No one here has tried to talk you in to buying Tekin electronics, Reedy, Muchmore, Maclan, Fantom, PPR, LRP, ORCA, or any other racing line of ESCs. All your getting is help that you refuse to take.

All i was looking for in this was, is there a simple chart to follow that pairs a specific ESC, say a 60A, with a specific range of motors, nothing more, nothing less. If not, then fine, ill just go back to trial and error, like i always have.

There is no cookie cutter guide you can follow but your problem isnt pairing ESCs with motors. Your problem is buying ESCs that can't perform properly in the given circumstances. 60A ESCs dont belong in anything 1/10 scale besides on road cars. Will some work in some circumstances? Yes. Is it a good idea? No.

You know, you really amaze me. Everytime you are given answers to your questions you always want to argue with the answers you get, no matter how many people are all in agreement that what was said is correct. Hell, you probably still think the DP and P are two different types of gear pitches. Go ahead and go back to trial and error method. Thats obviously going to cost less in the long run as opposed to spending an extra $20 - $40 up front to buy slightly better ESCs. Trial and error....I can't even put in to words how ridiculous that statement is, especially given how much information has been given to you in the one thread alone about how to pick an appropriate sized ESC.

All i need is to know what motor will work to run that specific vehicle,

Youve already been told 100 times that the problem is with the ESCs not the motors you're running. The kV ranges of the motors you're using are pretty appropriate to the kits you have them in. What isnt always appropriate are the ESCs.

since, the 120A that those two keep pushing, by the time i buy the ESC, the wire, the solder, and pay the $45 an hour the guy who solders for me charges, each one of those ESC will cost me $100 or more, and, since i have 6 trucks i run quite often, that is over $600 just in ESC's, that i can not afford.

Ok, so you want to conevert all 6 of your rigs to 120A ESCs because 2 of them arent running right? Another dramatically exaggerated statement. If 4 out of the 6 run properly then why would you want to fix the ones that already work? Even if you had to replace all 6 of them because none of them worked properly you're acting like youd have to buy all 6 of them at one time. The only two that were suggested to be replaced are the two 4WD SCTs that arent working with 60A ESCs.

On top of that you can't use the excuse about having to buy wire, solder, pay for soldering etc etc. All of that stuff is an integral part of the hobby. you're going to need that stuff at some point. We all have to buy that poop cuz you have to have it for the hobby. If you legitimately have some medical issue that prevents you from being able to hold a soldering iron to the side of a piece of wire then you're going to have to except that paying some one else to do your soldering is going to be a common thing you're going to have to do as part of the hobby. So get over it or find a different hobby.

On top of that, the only time i have ever seen anyone run one of those ESC's in the conditions i run in, it fried. I typically and routinely bury my vehicles up to the body in water in the winter, and still have only had one of the WP 10BL60 RTR's fry, because i forgot to unplug the fan. I did find an Arrma BLX100 for the price i pay for the WP 10BL60 RTR, but, i have heard they are hit or miss in winter conditions.

Theres a half a dozen different ways to water proof your electronics. Of course that would require you to spend a little extra money for the materials but why would you want to do that to add a layer of protection to that slightly more expensive ESC you just had to buy?

A lot of it i get, since i own 1:1 race cars, but, with those, there are charts for what motor, what tire size, and what gear will do what, so its a lot easier. For RC I always stick with what the manufacturers do, since i figure they put all that work into it to figure everything out.

What the manufacturers do is put the cheapest barely workable electronics they can get by with in to a kit. If stock electronics were any good, no one would ever burn them up or replace them. Why would you want to imitate bad practices? Besides it takes engineers to figure out the bare minimum electronics system that will work for each specific kit or style of kit that they sell and just because it works in a few specific rigs from a specfific manufacturer does not mean it will work in other rigs. Thats why its better to buy a little bit bigger ESCs than is technically needed so that way you can use that ESC in nearly any kit of a similar type and scale that you want to transfer it too.

Apparently though, what used to work for 4WD doesn't anymore,

Pretty sure 60A ESCs have never worked for 4WD SCTs but sure, lets pretend something changed to 4WD SCTs along the way that rendered 60A ESCs inoperable.

so I'm stuck either spending money i dont have, or not running them, which is what it is actually coming down to.

Yes, thats what it comes down to for all of us. If you dont have the money then you can't run your rigs until you do have the money. If you're smart youd spend a couple extra weeks in downtime in order to make sure you get enough money to get your rigs up and running properly in the first place so you'll have less downtime overall. Again, though, you're acting like all 6 of your rigs are down yet youve stated a copuple of times its just the two 4WD rigs that are down. So which one is it? If its just 2 out of the 6 rigs then stop making drama-queen type statements.

 

[biggman100]

Yes, thats what it comes down to for all of us. If you dont have the money then you can't run your rigs until you do have the money. If you're smart youd spend a couple extra weeks in downtime in order to make sure you get enough money to get your rigs up and running properly in the first place so you'll have less downtime overall. Again, though, you're acting like all 6 of your rigs are down yet youve stated a copuple of times its just the two 4WD rigs that are down. So which one is it? If its just 2 out of the 6 rigs then stop making drama-queen type statements.

I have 4 4WD (2 of my 4WD vehicles have been sitting since june because of this whole issue, and the other two i have been using as a test bed to see if anything will work) trucks that i would like to use in the winter, so there is $400+ for me in just ESC's. As for your statement about soldering, except for a few early ESC's that were brushed, none of the brushless ESC's i have have ever required me to solder anything, so, no, that isnt always a part of the hobby. There are always ways around spending that much on just one ESC. Breaking it down for me for one HW 10BL120:
ESC, from HW direct-$49.99
Wire-10GA-$10.99
Solder-$5.99
4MM bullet connectors-$10
Heat shrink-$4.99
Having Matt do the solder work-$45
Total-$120.97 before tax. There are an awful lot of RTR ESC's (Arrma BLX100 for example), that i could buy, if i had that much to spend, for way less than that, that require no soldering. However, unless i want to wait a month for each truck, i have to find something that comes in at $75 or less total.
Disclaimer: All the prices are from an internet search, since anything i buy, i have to source online and have shipped anyway. There isnt a shop within 100 miles of me anymore.

Ok, so you want to conevert all 6 of your rigs to 120A ESCs because 2 of them arent running right? Another dramatically exaggerated statement. If 4 out of the 6 run properly then why would you want to fix the ones that already work? Even if you had to replace all 6 of them because none of them worked properly you're acting like youd have to buy all 6 of them at one time. The only two that were suggested to be replaced are the two 4WD SCTs that arent working with 60A ESCs.

I dont want to convert any of them, but, if you actually paid attention to this or any other post i make, the first response when i mention the HW 10BL60 in any truck is always, nope, wrong ESC, it has to be 120A or bigger, which, frankly, given that companies like Arrma dont even use 120A in their 1/10TH 4WD, and only recently some of the other companies started using 100A or bigger stuff, i don't buy. As for your statement that companies put barely workable electronics in their stuff, that "barely workable" stuff has always worked for me. The only reason i started buying the HW 10BL60 in the first place, is because my source for stock stuff at a discount dried up. Before that, whether it was brushed or brushless, all my stuff was stock components i bought from a kit breaker, most of which i still have (like the HW 10BL50, and 16BL30), but, wont work with bigger motors, which is why i dont use it anymore.


I think the biggest issue with any of my posts is that noone actually reads them. They just go off what they do, and how they use their stuff. Except for my Losi 22S (I didnt even own a 3S battery until i bought this truck a year ago) and DHK Hunter (very occasionally), all of my stuff is run strictly on 2S. I am not one to buy an RC, and use it in a way it wasn't designed for, which means, i am not the type to run bigger batteries than recommended by the manufacturer, or swap parts to make it insanely fast, or able to do stupid stunts with. My 2S batteries are all the same Gen's ace 5000MAH 50C ( I just ordered 2 ZEEE 5200MAH 70C 2S to replace two of my failing 5000MAH Gen's Ace), and my 2 3S are both Gen's Ace 4000MAH 70C. I have never tried to run a 4S, or go insanely fast, or, overwork what i have for thrills. I stick with basic, simple, and cheap, since all my RC stuff is for is anger management, and to kill time when I'm bored. I have no intentions of racing, going after speed records, or doing insane stunts.

 

[Greywolf74]

I think the biggest issue with any of my posts is that noone actually reads them.

We read them. We all reply with similar information. You reject said information. So when everyone else is all in agreement and you're the odd man out then everyone else is wrong? Like you're statement that soldering isnt part of the hobby. 99.9% of the people in this hobby would agree that you are wrong and that it is a big part of the hobby but I guess everyone else is wrong. You want answers to fix your problems but when those answers dont fit in with what you want to hear then you reject them and you want to argue about it. Plus you want to complain about not having the money to buy what people suggest but its like you dont understand that its possible to save up money when you dont have enough. Everytime that part gets mentioned you glaze right over it. Even if you had to replace all 6 ESCs and even if it was going to cost $1000 to replace them all you could do it, you just dont want to. Stop complaining about not having the money and just save some up. You dont have to do them all at once either. Work on them one at a time. The problem is you keep wanting someone to give you the answer of an ESC that will work that still costs the same as the ones that wont work. Sorry, it doesn't exist that any of us are aware of so bite the bullet and buy the slightly more expensive equipment that will work. IDK what else you think you're going to hear from people.

The thing that you're not taking in to account with the prices for all the hobby supplies youd need is, Those prices would leave you enough to do many many ESCs down the road so its a one time cost that would span the use of several ESCs or solder jobs. If you want to buy the BLX ESCs so you dont have to solder then buy those. Again it is possible to save money for whatever the hell it is you want to buy.

I think I'm gonna join Stoner and stop wasting my breath on someone who doesn't want answers. Either save up the money you need to buy parts that work or just keep being frustrated. Frankly, I dont give a damn anymore.

 

[biggman100]

We read them. We all reply with similar information. You reject said information. So when everyone else is all in agreement and you're the odd man out then everyone else is wrong? Like you're statement that soldering isnt part of the hobby. 99.9% of the people in this hobby would agree that you are wrong and that it is a big part of the hobby but I guess everyone else is wrong. You want answers to fix your problems but when those answers dont fit in with what you want to hear then you reject them and you want to argue about it. Plus you want to complain about not having the money to buy what people suggest but its like you dont understand that its possible to save up money when you dont have enough. Everytime that part gets mentioned you glaze right over it. Even if you had to replace all 6 ESCs and even if it was going to cost $1000 to replace them all you could do it, you just dont want to. Stop complaining about not having the money and just save some up. You dont have to do them all at once either. Work on them one at a time. The problem is you keep wanting someone to give you the answer of an ESC that will work that still costs the same as the ones that wont work. Sorry, it doesn't exist that any of us are aware of so bite the bullet and buy the slightly more expensive equipment that will work. IDK what else you think you're going to hear from people.

The thing that you're not taking in to account with the prices for all the hobby supplies youd need is, Those prices would leave you enough to do many many ESCs down the road so its a one time cost that would span the use of several ESCs or solder jobs. If you want to buy the BLX ESCs so you dont have to solder then buy those. Again it is possible to save money for whatever the hell it is you want to buy.

I think I'm gonna join Stoner and stop wasting my breath on someone who doesn't want answers. Either save up the money you need to buy parts that work or just keep being frustrated. Frankly, I dont give a damn anymore.

Yes, i reject the information you keep giving, since none of it applies to me. I dont want to hear that i have to spend more than necessary on something, when there are just as capable alternatives, which i have already found, and have gotten multiple answers from others on other forums stating that they will work. For perfect example, you keep touting the same 120A hw ESC, but, ignoring the Arrma 80A and 100A, that, according to others, is perfectly capable for what i do with the stuff i have. There are also 80A and 100A alternatives from other companies, that, according to others that own them, will also work, which is what i want to hear. I want advice about what will work, from every manufacturer, not just to constantly hear how this one part is a requirement, just because that is all you two have ever used. Honestly, you two, on this forum, are literally the only ones i ever hear pushing the sensored HW over better, cheaper, sensorless alternatives. As for your constant comments about saving up, why, so, in my case, they never get used? I have much better things to do with my money, than to save for parts for a damn toy, and, unless it is something i can buy at that point, that fits my budget at that point, then i guess that toy just sits in a corner collecting dust. That is the biggest difference between me and most of the people in this "hobby". To me, they are just toys, and as such, shouldnt require huge amounts of money to use. Another one i constantly hear from you, that also doesn't apply in my situation, is the need to spend money on parts from RPM, HR, and other non-stock companies. To me, since the vehicles i have never need those kinds of parts, why keep pushing me to buy them? They may work for you, but, they do not apply in my situation, so, maybe try reading when i say that, and stop wasting time touting them to me.

As for the prices i quoted, the only "supplies" i would have left over are the solder, heat shrink, and connectors. The wire, i would have to buy every time i bought one of your most touted ESC's, and, when i can buy capable ESC's from a kit breaker for less than what just the price of the HW is, to me it will never be worth it (the Arrma BLX100 is currently $42 with free shipping from two different kit breakers). I just got another reply from someone on a different forum, saying the same thing they have been saying for days now. The HW 120A isnt very suited to my situation, since i run in a lot of mud, snow, and water, and they wont stanf up to that for very long like the 10BL60 will.

 

[biggman100]

Thanks to someone else on another forum, i did find a sort of chart, if you will, that i have never seen before. It is basically a list of the recommended motors for a given ESC, such as, for the 10BL60, for on road it says, for 2S, a motor limit of 3656, less than 6000KV, and 2S off road, a motor limit of 3656 of less than 4000KV, and, for 3S on road, a 3656 of less than 4000KV and off road a 3656 of less than 3000KV. Perusing that chart though, will someone please explain to me why some companies list their recommendations in turns instead of KV? I didnt think brushless motors were rated in turns. Going by that chart, then, yes, i am using way too big of a motor for that ESC for my off road stuff. However, going through that chart for the Arrma BLX100 and BLX80, they seem to both be more than capable of handling a 3660 3800KV on both 2S and 3S, and that is all i was looking for, was a list of ESC's, from any manufacturer, that would work, not an argument centered around one specific ESC that probably wont work for what i use my stuff for.

As for converting turns to kv ratings, theres no exact forumla but if you divide 43,000 by the number of turns you'll get a rough approximation of the equivalent kV rating. Example if you want to know roughly what kV a 17.5T motor is then 43,000/17.5= 2,457.14. So a 17.5T motor is about 2500kV. The formula will generally get you in the ballpark within +/-5% however as you get to the extreme ends of the spectrum (realy high or really low T motors) the margin for error increases but for most things this will work.

But, what about if you have a known turn rating? How do you get KV from that? For example, the HW10BL120 lists their motor spec in turns, but, i need to know the KV rating, so how do you figure that out? FYI, they arent the only ones who list the ratings in turns.

 

[Nefarious]

You said "HW WP 10BL50 and a 3652 3250KV, that barely has enough power to move my ECX Torment," Well the HW WP 10BL50 is a 45A ESC. So are you saying thats a typo? Even if it was a 60A ESC, thats not much better. Start running at least 80A ESCs on your 1/10 scale 2WD stuff and at least 120A on 4WD 1/10 scale and see if that doesn't make a huge difference.

View attachment 135988


All manufacturers use cheap ass barely gets the job done electronics. Why do you think people tend to burn them up and replace them rather quickly the majority of the time?


Its not about spending large amoutns of money. Its about buying things that will work, work properly, and last a long time so you dont have to keep spending money to replace the stuff further down the road. We had the whole huge debate about this before in that thread where you kept trying to convince Stigtheone to buy cheap electronics which you swore up and down you been using for years without issues but yet here you are in this thread wondering why half your electronics either dont work right or why they dont work at all anymore. It doesn't make sense. Does this cheap low end budget stuff work or doesn't it? You keep wanting to fly in the face of what seasoned RC hobbyists are telling you. Not just myself but others too. Its almost like your fishing for an answer that fits your warped logic on buying cheap bottom of the barrel electronics. I get why Stoner doesn't want to waste his breath anymore.

Greywolf74, he said 10bl60!
Later he mentions buying the ecx and said it came with a 10bl50, but he did say 10bl60 before, that was what he was asking about.
Also the 10bl50 isn't a 45amp esc. I mean maybe if Redcat was a valid source for hobbywing spec that could be concluded but usually using the manufacturer as source for spec would be advisable and in this case the hobbywing MANUAL states the 10bl50 is rated at 50a/300a. Not 45a as redcat mistakenly printed, its a misprint from a cheap rc company that doesn't manufacture any escs themselves.
If all 1/10 cars must use 120a escs then why did my 1/8th scale Vaterra Glamis Fear come with a 70a Fuze esc and went over 55mph stock on a 3300kv 3650? I did latwr upgrade it with a spare blx100 since it has a bulletproof differential and i changed out the stock clutch with a Traxxas heavy duty clutch/spur. It does over 70mph now and climbs sand dunes without slowing down and i did have to build a custom wheelie bar for it , fun car! I use a Trackstar Turbo 80a in my title winning Tamiya TT-02?
It does win some money here and there with just an 80a $75 trackstar esc + motor combo.
But the comment about vehicle weight is SPOT ON my man. You and Castle got it so correct, really it comes down to are you using a 2wd or 4wd and is it light or heavy with a ton of alloy upgrades.
Also, let it be known It is NOT just amps that decide if an ESC can handle a higher KV motor, it depends mainly on the ESC's internal CPU. The CPU in the ESC has to pump out the amps as each of the motor's poles are fired, twice as many times per second for a 4 pole motor than a 2 pole motor. So if the ESC has a cheap and slow CPU then it will NOT be able to handle a higher kv motor no matter how many amps the esc is rated for! This is a serious and absolute fact based in the laws of physics and taught when taking the E.E. track in college.
If your car is struggling with a 10bl60 on a 3660 motor then your probably testing the limits of your esc, considering all other contributing factors are correct, like no binding anywhere all the way from the wheel nuts to the pinion gear. The MOTOR determines what amps are needed, it ASKS the ESC for the AMPS. NO MATTER what esc you have its going to TRY to produce those amps and can get a digital hernia trying if it isn't built to produce the number of amps your motor wantz! Lol.
So you do need to know how many amps your motor is going to require. Then get an esc that can produce 20 to 30% more amps than what you come up with for the motor your using, this is racing's unwritten code. Everything after a race car's engine must be stronger than tbe engine itself! You will also need a battery that can supply the esc with the amps your motor asks the esc for. How? You multiply the "C" rating by the Amp rating of your LiPo. So a 5000mAh lipo with a 50c rating would look like this in our math class:
5,000mAh=5Ah so (5Ah*50c=250Amps). So our example battery can supply 250amps, power enough for a 200amp esc if you follow the cide/rule that your esc should be 20 to 30% higher in amps than your motor asks for and your battery should be able to supply 20 to 30% more amps than the esc will ask from it. With this methodology you will never over extend your esc or swell up your lipo. But you still need to gear your motor and choose the appropriate KV motor in the first place. This involves figuring out your rc vehicles FDR. Using FDR you can create a gear chart and match it to your motor manufacturer's recommended gearing for the type and model and kv motor you purchased....granted you bought a motor from a manufacturer that has this information supplied and a car that has the FDR listed. You can Figure the FDR out on your own though, there are even websites and phone apps available to help.

For figuring out the Kv of a motor that doesn't list the Kv you will need a LOT of math or just buy a cheap RPM meter. KV is a unit of RPM/Volt.
So get a RPM meter, and then use a volt meter to check the exact voltage of the lipo you are using. Then use our friend math to figure out what the RPM would be at 1 volt. This is going to be your motor's actual KV rating. A 3300kv motor will have an RPM of 24,420rpm using a 2s Lipo at 7.4volts
(7.4volts * 3300kv = 24,420rpm).
I hope this helps, we all know some thangz but together we can know it ALL and knowledge is pow pow!

 

[Greywolf74]

Greywolf74, he said 10bl60!
Later he mentions buying the ecx and said it came with a 10bl50, but he did say 10bl60 before, that was what he was asking about.

Hello and thank you for resurrecting a year and a half old argument!

Also the 10bl50 isn't a 45amp esc. I mean maybe if Redcat was a valid source for hobbywing spec that could be concluded but usually using the manufacturer as source for spec would be advisable and in this case the hobbywing MANUAL states the 10bl50 is rated at 50a/300a. Not 45a as redcat mistakenly printed, its a misprint from a cheap rc company that doesn't manufacture any escs themselves.

Explain to me how 5A makes any significant difference to the overall point that I was making? Besides, its not like you can go to Hobbywings website and look at the specs because its not on their website. If you go to hobbywingdirect.com and do a search for 10BL50 THIS is what comes up.

If all 1/10 cars must use 120a escs then why did my 1/8th scale Vaterra Glamis Fear come with a 70a Fuze esc and went over 55mph stock on a 3300kv 3650? I did latwr upgrade it with a spare blx100 since it has a bulletproof differential and i changed out the stock clutch with a Traxxas heavy duty clutch/spur. It does over 70mph now and climbs sand dunes without slowing down and i did have to build a custom wheelie bar for it , fun car! I use a Trackstar Turbo 80a in my title winning Tamiya TT-02?

I didnt say that all 1/10 scale cars had to have 120A ESCs. What I said was "To me its more a question of what type of kit it is and the type of terrain its gonna be run on. The same 1/10 scale ESC that will work in a given kit on a given terrain will work for all of those motors. I personally try to buy oversized ESCs so that the ESC will run as cool as possible and last longer. For example if an 80A ESC would work then Ill probably buy a 120A to put in it but thats just me."

If your car is struggling with a 10bl60 on a 3660 motor then your probably testing the limits of your esc, considering all other contributing factors are correct, like no binding anywhere all the way from the wheel nuts to the pinion gear. The MOTOR determines what amps are needed, it ASKS the ESC for the AMPS. NO MATTER what esc you have its going to TRY to produce those amps and can get a digital hernia trying if it isn't built to produce the number of amps your motor wantz! Lol.
So you do need to know how many amps your motor is going to require. Then get an esc that can produce 20 to 30% more amps than what you come up with for the motor your using, this is racing's unwritten code.

This is the overall point everyone in this thread was making.

 

[biggman100]

Greywolf74, he said 10bl60!
Later he mentions buying the ecx and said it came with a 10bl50, but he did say 10bl60 before, that was what he was asking about.
Also the 10bl50 isn't a 45amp esc. I mean maybe if Redcat was a valid source for hobbywing spec that could be concluded but usually using the manufacturer as source for spec would be advisable and in this case the hobbywing MANUAL states the 10bl50 is rated at 50a/300a. Not 45a as redcat mistakenly printed, its a misprint from a cheap rc company that doesn't manufacture any escs themselves.
If all 1/10 cars must use 120a escs then why did my 1/8th scale Vaterra Glamis Fear come with a 70a Fuze esc and went over 55mph stock on a 3300kv 3650? I did latwr upgrade it with a spare blx100 since it has a bulletproof differential and i changed out the stock clutch with a Traxxas heavy duty clutch/spur. It does over 70mph now and climbs sand dunes without slowing down and i did have to build a custom wheelie bar for it , fun car! I use a Trackstar Turbo 80a in my title winning Tamiya TT-02?
It does win some money here and there with just an 80a $75 trackstar esc + motor combo.
But the comment about vehicle weight is SPOT ON my man. You and Castle got it so correct, really it comes down to are you using a 2wd or 4wd and is it light or heavy with a ton of alloy upgrades.
Also, let it be known It is NOT just amps that decide if an ESC can handle a higher KV motor, it depends mainly on the ESC's internal CPU. The CPU in the ESC has to pump out the amps as each of the motor's poles are fired, twice as many times per second for a 4 pole motor than a 2 pole motor. So if the ESC has a cheap and slow CPU then it will NOT be able to handle a higher kv motor no matter how many amps the esc is rated for! This is a serious and absolute fact based in the laws of physics and taught when taking the E.E. track in college.
If your car is struggling with a 10bl60 on a 3660 motor then your probably testing the limits of your esc, considering all other contributing factors are correct, like no binding anywhere all the way from the wheel nuts to the pinion gear. The MOTOR determines what amps are needed, it ASKS the ESC for the AMPS. NO MATTER what esc you have its going to TRY to produce those amps and can get a digital hernia trying if it isn't built to produce the number of amps your motor wantz! Lol.
So you do need to know how many amps your motor is going to require. Then get an esc that can produce 20 to 30% more amps than what you come up with for the motor your using, this is racing's unwritten code. Everything after a race car's engine must be stronger than tbe engine itself! You will also need a battery that can supply the esc with the amps your motor asks the esc for. How? You multiply the "C" rating by the Amp rating of your LiPo. So a 5000mAh lipo with a 50c rating would look like this in our math class:
5,000mAh=5Ah so (5Ah*50c=250Amps). So our example battery can supply 250amps, power enough for a 200amp esc if you follow the cide/rule that your esc should be 20 to 30% higher in amps than your motor asks for and your battery should be able to supply 20 to 30% more amps than the esc will ask from it. With this methodology you will never over extend your esc or swell up your lipo. But you still need to gear your motor and choose the appropriate KV motor in the first place. This involves figuring out your rc vehicles FDR. Using FDR you can create a gear chart and match it to your motor manufacturer's recommended gearing for the type and model and kv motor you purchased....granted you bought a motor from a manufacturer that has this information supplied and a car that has the FDR listed. You can Figure the FDR out on your own though, there are even websites and phone apps available to help.

For figuring out the Kv of a motor that doesn't list the Kv you will need a LOT of math or just buy a cheap RPM meter. KV is a unit of RPM/Volt.
So get a RPM meter, and then use a volt meter to check the exact voltage of the lipo you are using. Then use our friend math to figure out what the RPM would be at 1 volt. This is going to be your motor's actual KV rating. A 3300kv motor will have an RPM of 24,420rpm using a 2s Lipo at 7.4volts
(7.4volts * 3300kv = 24,420rpm).
I hope this helps, we all know some thangz but together we can know it ALL and knowledge is pow pow!

Going back to this whole thing, it turned out that, for the most part, i was right, in that, for my situation, the HW 120A wasn't worth the extra i spent on it, neither was the Arrma BLX100. In all of this, the point that was missed was that i was looking for something that was already waterproof, would work in what i had, and didnt cost a fortune, and was plug and play, and, for 2WD, i found that by sticking with the WP-10BL60 paired with 3650 motors from 3300KV to 4300KV, it works perfectly for what i do (currently, that is what i have in 3 Traxxas Stampedes (one of which i am getting ready to convert to a Slash), an HPI Jumpshot MT (and will soon be in the HPI Jumpshot SC I'm building), and an Arrma Fury), and, for 4WD, the whole 2 i currently have, i use Traxxas Velineon systems, and, yesterday, in a 4WD Slash (with Traxxas Sledgehammer wheels and tires) and 6 inches of snow, i ran that truck a total of more than 2 hours, and not once did i have an issue with it. However, both HW 120A ESC's i bought lasted not even one battery in water and mud about a month ago, and, the BLX100's i bought, all 4 of them died getting wet. Even my Associated ProSC10, with stock Reedy electronics has worked better in wet conditions, and, that is the truck i have been running the most out of my 2WD stuff in mud, water, and snow, and, it has been ran in those conditions all summer, and hasnt once had an issue. The biggest problem i am finding is, everyone uses their RC's differently, so, just because something doesn't work for one person, or even a few people, doesn't mean that it doesn't work at all.

Explain to me how 5A makes any significant difference to the overall point that I was making? Besides, its not like you can go to Hobbywings website and look at the specs because its not on their website. If you go to hobbywingdirect.com and do a search for 10BL50 THIS is what comes up.

The 10BL50 was discontinued, and replaced by the 10BL60 about 4 years ago. The only reason i even had the 10BL50 was because i bought a car from Hobby King that had it in it. As for specs though, it was 50A.

 

[WickedFog]

Going back to this whole thing, it turned out that, for the most part, i was right, in that, for my situation, the HW 120A wasn't worth the extra i spent on it, neither was the Arrma BLX100. In all of this, the point that was missed was that i was looking for something that was already waterproof, would work in what i had, and didnt cost a fortune, and was plug and play, and, for 2WD, i found that by sticking with the WP-10BL60 paired with 3650 motors from 3300KV to 4300KV, it works perfectly for what i do (currently, that is what i have in 3 Traxxas Stampedes (one of which i am getting ready to convert to a Slash), an HPI Jumpshot MT (and will soon be in the HPI Jumpshot SC I'm building), and an Arrma Fury), and, for 4WD, the whole 2 i currently have, i use Traxxas Velineon systems, and, yesterday, in a 4WD Slash (with Traxxas Sledgehammer wheels and tires) and 6 inches of snow, i ran that truck a total of more than 2 hours, and not once did i have an issue with it. However, both HW 120A ESC's i bought lasted not even one battery in water and mud about a month ago, and, the BLX100's i bought, all 4 of them died getting wet. Even my Associated ProSC10, with stock Reedy electronics has worked better in wet conditions, and, that is the truck i have been running the most out of my 2WD stuff in mud, water, and snow, and, it has been ran in those conditions all summer, and hasnt once had an issue. The biggest problem i am finding is, everyone uses their RC's differently, so, just because something doesn't work for one person, or even a few people, doesn't mean that it doesn't work at all.

The 10BL50 was discontinued, and replaced by the 10BL60 about 4 years ago. The only reason i even had the 10BL50 was because i bought a car from Hobby King that had it in it. As for specs though, it was 50A.

You burned up 4 BLX's in water? Wow. I guess we got lucky. We drove this truck through muddy puddles that nearly engulfed the entire truck. Then to clean it I put it in the bathtub and hit it with the handheld shower head til it was all new again. Have done that 3 or 4 times now.

 

[biggman100]

You burned up 4 BLX's in water? Wow. I guess we got lucky. We drove this truck through muddy puddles that nearly engulfed the entire truck. Then to clean it I put it in the bathtub and hit it with the handheld shower head til it was all new again. Have done that 3 or 4 times now.
View attachment 158792

I probably should have clarified. When i say in water and mud, i mean it went from being a truck to being a submarine lol. There is a roughly 1 foot deep by about 10 foot wide, by maybe 8 feet long "puddle" if you will, that my goal is to make it across on top of the water, but, because its surround by a bunch of mud, i can never get enough traction to make it completely across, so, when the trucks sink, i just drive them out of it, if the mud at the bottom doesn't stop them. The 2WD's tend to get stuck in it almost every time. I keep getting asked, why not just get another boat, but, the boat i want (ProBoat Miss Geico 36, or ProBoat Black Jack 42), it would be across the "puddle, and half way across the yard, in about 30-40 seconds. Yesterday, we had a bunch of rain, on top of the snow and ice we already have, so, i took my Slash 4X4, and was jumping piles of ice, and landing in puddles to see how big of a splash i could make (think cannon balls that you do into a pool, except, with RC cars). I even tried it with my Redcat Lightning STK (newest acquisition), but, i couldnt get it to stop spinning and sliding enough. The first BLX100 i fried though, was actually before the fire last year. I put one in my Arrma 3S build, had the TH reversed without testing it, and it promptly flew backwards into a small pond.