Breaking in NTC3 woes....

[mcvickj]

Well this past weekend was the first one I have had off in a while. The weather was perfect Saturday so I decided to break open the new gallon of nitro and bring the NTC3 outside to start breaking it in. Well after 1.5 hours and a few choice words I have yet to get the car to start. Trying to get her to turn over using the PS is a PITA. So much that it makes me wish I had a starter box right now.

The first thing I noticed off the bat is that the factory plug is slightly longer than my others and my glow starter will not clip on to it. Its one of those push down and twist. (Need to get a better starter) So I just purchased 3 new OS A5 glow plugs which will be here Friday. I am using these in my RS4 and I know my glow starter can attach to these.

I have tripple checked my carb setting and even had a friend check my carb settings. So I know those are correct.

I held my thumb over the exhaust for about 3 pulls. Just enough so I could make sure that fuel was flowing to the carb. Then I pulled for my life but I could not get any signs of life outta the engine. I have found a few posts that mention using a hair dryer for the first few tanks to help with starting. I know I have a heat guy so I will give that a try this weekend. Does anyone have any ideas/tips for me. This is my first time I have ever broken in an engine and at the moment it beating me. :-/

 

[NCNitro]

One thing I have found helpful in starting a stubborn engine is to choke it. Pull the a/f off, put your finger over the carb to completely block off all air, and pull a few times, after a few pulls it will feel slightly easier to pull, then pull your finger away and try starting it again. Hope this helps.

 

[robriguez]

I dont own an NTC3 but I too am brand new to nitro. I just got an LD3 and was having the same problem. I found that I was not priming the engine enough in the beginning.

Put your finger over the exhaust and pull the PS until fuel flows to the carb. If your fuel lines are clear this should be easy to see. Then give it another 5-6 pulls to make sure enough fuel is in the engine. Put your glow igniter on and leave it sit for about 2 to 3 sec before you pull again. The only problem with this is you may flood the engine. If that happens you'll have to remove the plug, turn the car upside down and pull a few times to clear it out then start all over.

It took me about 5 hours of trying one thing after another until I finally got the right combination of steps in the right order to get my engine to start consistantly. Now it starts first pull every time.

The heat gun trick works great for the high compression engines. But if your not running one of those I'm not sure how much it will help.

 

[Nitroaddict]

do u have the RTR or kit?

remember - there are 4 things that must happen for the engine to start.

fuel - air - compression - combustition

if ALL FOUR of these are not happening, the engine will not run.

1. are u getting fuel? yes? move on
2. are u getting air? yes? move on
3. do u have compression? yes? move on
4. do u have a hot glow plug? yes? move on

after checking all of these things, and they are all ok, and the engine still does not start; then it is a fuel air problem, that can be adjusted with the needle valves, or by checking for an air leak.

BTW - u are using A5 plugs? most .12 engines should use A3's

 

[mcvickj]

It is a refurb RTR package I got off eBay for $200 bucks from AE. I haven't tried the A5 plugs yet. I just got those. The guy at the LHS said these would be fine. Why do you say to use the A3's?

 

[Nitroaddict]

i am assuming that it is using the stock thunder tiger engine then? if so, then try this. prime the engine by holding ur finger over the stinger, and pulling the starter cord. when the fuel reaches the carb, pull the cord enough to make the engine turn over 1 more time. next remove the glow plug and make sure that it is indeed getting nice n hot. if it is,replace it back into the engine. insert the glow starter and pull away. if u have NO combustion of any kind, and u have fuel, compression, and a hot glow plug than the ONLY THING IT CAN BE is the fuel air mixture. have u verified that the factory breakin settings are what the engine is set at? if not do so, and then lean the HSN out 1/16th of a turn and try again. these engines are fairly simple, its just a matter of eliminating the options.

Small .12 engines should use an A3 as the upper level of plugs are too hot, and will cause pre-detenation.

 

[mcvickj]

Great news. I was able to get my NTC3 started last night and broke it in with 5 tanks of fuel. I went to the LHS last night and picked up a few OS #A3 glow plugs. I got rid of that POS stock plug and threw in a A3.

After tripple checking my carb settings. I primed the engine and on about the 4th pull she came alive. Screeming like a banshee!!! I adjusted the throttle to make it as high as possible without the car moving just as the manual said. The whole time a light trail of blue smoke coming from the engine.

On tanks 3 and 4 I leaned the HSN 1/8th of a turn as the manual states. After doing this the temperature shot up some. Between tanks 4 and 5 the engine temp, according to my Raytek gun, was between 190 and 210.

I plan on babying the engine for at least another tank or two, making sure not to go past half throttle.

I noticed that after I was done doing the initial breakin that the breaks were applied. I am guess they were applied is because I was adjusting the throttle and I just need loosen the set screw and readjust the linkage. Am I correct?

I will get some pictures up this weekend.

EDIT: Now I remember what else I wanted to mention. There was a lot of raw fuel coming from the pipe between tanks 2 and 3. After tank 5 there was still some coming out. I am guessing that it will go away for the most part when I start to tune the engine for performance. This is a sign that its running to rich correct?

Also when I start to tune the engine I adjust the HSN, LSN then idle correct?

 

[Nitroaddict]

congrats on getting it started! i hope the plug was the key (i love helping someone! lol) do u have the stock AE pipe on the car? if so, does it have a nipple for the pressure line, or is the pressure line that goes to the fuel tank, just pushed through a hole in the pipe?
fuel coming from the exhaust means rich, u r right. however, even when runnign properly, u will see fuel spit from time to time, usually when the car has been idling for a while. U are correct about tuning the HSN then the LSN, never both at the same time. as for the idle screw, makes sense to ajust it last, but i dont think it makes to big of a difference it u dont. does ur radio have end point adjustments?

 

[mcvickj]

Oh yeah. The plug was key. Yes I have the stock pipe. It does not have a nipple. The tube goes straight into the pipe. I noticed durning breakin that the back pressure line seems to be kinda scuzzy looking. Is this normal? Would it be cleaner if there was a pressure fitting? I remember reading the reason why AE doesn't put a pressure fitting there. They said that was a constant spot for an air leak. I would think just throwing the tube it there would be worse than having a pressure fitting.

Another thing I wanted to mention was the pull start. What a POS. It has been binding up on me. Sometimes it will be fine and other times it will stop. So I give it a gentle pull and then it retracts its self. I think I better get another one of these it my pit box until I get a starter box. I never had that many problems with the PS on my 15FE engine.

 

[Nitroaddict]

okay since u answered my question i can give u more info - here is the deal with that pipe. it is awsome as far as a power band goes, however, due to the fact that it has no pressure fitting, it tends to gather fuel when u fill the tank. try this - top off the tank till its full, then tip the car over on its left side, u will see the tank drain iinto the pipe, and all the fuel come dumping out. this will not flood the engine, but it is a constant cause of fuel spitting out of the pipe. so make sure the pipe is clear as u are tuning the engine, or that fuel spillage may give u a false sense of being rich. as for the pullstart - i never had that problem, because i got the kit, and bought an engine without one. BUY A STARTER BOX!!!!!!!!!! not only do the pull starts break all the time, but the way the ntc is designed, u cannot start it with a PS while the body is on. good luck, this car is so much fun! any more questions?

 

[mcvickj]

Would you suggest getting a different pipe that has a pressure fitting so I don't have the constant fuel spitting out? I have two brand new bodies and I don't want them to get all scuzzy right away. The starter box has been added to the wish list at TowerHobbies. Now I just need to wish the money into my bank account so I can get it. Unless I can find one on eBay for a heck of a deal.

EDIT: Any suggestions on a fuel filter?

 

[kwong2001]

Originally posted by Nitroaddict
the kit, and bought an engine without one. BUY A STARTER BOX!!!!!!!!!! not only do the pull starts break all the time, but the way the ntc is designed, u cannot start it with a PS while the body is on. good luck, this car is so much fun! any more questions?

The way I started the car with the body on was I had my fingers through the air opening in the front windshield and grabbed the ps through there...only bad thing is that the string will rub and you'll have to replace the string OFTEN!

Oh yeah...when I was breaking in my CV-R, after each tank there would be unused fuel in the exhaust and i'd tip it sideways and get it all out....it's normal since you're running super rich for break-in

 

[Nitroaddict]

i currently dont have a filter - but would recommend one. i dont know which though, check with skymaxx, he will know.

i wouldnt change the pipe, as long as u take care, u wont destroy the bodies, and that pipe is just amazing as far as a good balance of torque and rpm power.

if u like to build, u can get a starter box unassembled for abut 60.00 thats the price of only 1 pull start and a gallong of fuel.

 

[mcvickj]

I have no problem putting things together. I was just checking eBay out. I found a complete (-battery) Ofna box for 60ish. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3131921144
Chris has recommend this one to me.

I have also found an AE box that is going for 20 bucks right now.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3132046625&category=19168&rd=1

I needs a battery and motor. I have found the motor for about 18 and the battery for about 15 on eBay.

 

[kwong2001]

My starter box was an OFNA pre-assembled, but I don't understand electric stuff. Oh, btw, if you get the same box as me, you'll have to get extensions on the wires because when you turn the little starting wheel sideways, the wires won't reach. I had the hobby shop switch up the box a little to make it work...free of charge since I bought it there

 

[mcvickj]

Kwong2001 - Did you have to turn the starting wheel sideways for the NTC3?

 

[kwong2001]

yep

 

[Nitroaddict]

i sue the new ofna multibox, it is amazing! unbuilt for only 69.00 and it uses 14cells to produce an awsome start! also will run all day without a charge. i use two 3000ma 7 cell packs.

 

[mcvickj]

Cool. I am talking to the guy right now who is selling the Ofna Multibox. He said that two RE DS3000 6 Cell 7.2 V Battery Pack 3000 mAh (2 Pack) will run me $49.90. Plus the starter box which will be around 60. What do you guys think about that?

 

[kwong2001]

hmmm...well if you like building then go for it...but it adds up to the same as a prebuilt. I dunno i'm kinda biased since I don't understand electric anything