4x2 vs. 4x4

[godale03]

I like the new style better, nicer cockpit and better workmanship (supposedly that is a lie in itself).
A 2500HD would be too much for a dumptruck, that drives less than 50 miles a week... and a Diesel is just too loud.
I also don't need the crew cab and no long bed.

Looks like I'm gonna fall for one of the new style teasers in the fall when they crank out rebates like crazy to make the quotas. I'm leaning towards the 2WD, I drove both types and don't see whats so amazing about a 4WD that will twist the truck around like a banana. A buddy just bought the new Tundra, and I guess for me to warm up with that rig will be a few years.

Good luck on the purchase .21Rc10GT, keep walking out, I'm amazed how bendable prices are, even after several years in this industry.

Can't comment on which truck to buy, but I can comment on the walking out of a car dealership. I have walked out of the dealership no less than two times each time I have bought a new car. You would be surprised at how low they are willing to go if they think they have to, to get the sale. I also pit different dealers against each other. Sometimes I can even get the price in writing and then take that to different dealers. Usually the salesman\saleswoman say they don't understand the math and how they are able to give you that price. As soon as they flounder I am out the door. I have even had salesman chase me into the parking lot.



Tom

 

[joneser4u]

This is not really 100% true. The physics behind an "open" diff cause it to transfer equal torque to each axle. If one wheel is off the ground and is transfering zero torque to the ground, then it's true that the other wheel will get zero torque as well. If one wheel is spinning on something slippery (like ice) and it's only transferring 20 lb-ft to the ground, then the other wheel will also get 20 lb-ft of torque. So while one wheel is spinning wildly and only putting down 20 lb-ft to the ground it is important to understand that the other wheel is also putting 20 lb-ft to the ground. While this setup will not provide optimal traction the non-spinning wheel should be considered a driven wheel because it is providing some torque.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/differential2.htm


A limited slip rear contains clutch packs that force both wheels to spin at the same rate when slippage occurs.

OK, rent a new 4x4 hit some good mud and see what happens when you get stuck. 1 wheel thrill front & rear. A factory limitedslip is junk in the offroad world,unless you get your jollies off in muddy cornfields. Lockers either neumatic or electric are the only way to go. For the non offroaders lockin hubs are not locking diffs, just because you turn the knob on the hub doesn't imply that wheel will recieve power.

BTW my 98' S-10 4.3v came factory limitedslip, its a 5 speed 3000rpm clutch drop=shreded right rear. No pretty twin stripes left behind? So much for howstuffworks?

 

[Aftrshck]

Guess you should figure out what limited slip means....posi and limited slip are different, but if you put a 4x4 into the mud...its not a 1 wheel wonder....at least none of the many I have owned have been....my current truck and toy is an 04 chev 4x4 and it works wonders....not entirely sure but howstuffworks.com is actually a pretty good site...

limited slip=one stripe
posi=two stripes

once you understand what limited slip is you will understand the reason for the one stripe....

 

[joneser4u]

actually reg diff= 1 stripe
limited slip?? kinda self explainitory, supose to limit the slip= 2 stripes
lockers= 2 stripes for sure

I think you need to understand limitedslip there bud?

BTW experience= 79' cj5 factory 304 replaced with 360amc from 3/4ton truck
Dana 60 rear with airlocker
Dana 40 front with airlocker

I see you Z71 guys thinking your all good just because its got the offroad package.LMAO try to follow me?

 

[Aftrshck]

don't laugh until you have seen my truck...its not a street queen....I have significant experience thank you. You believe how you want....and just for your information...I got your Jeep thang right here....and used penicillin to fix it

also...never once did i mention Z71.....tsk tsk...assumptions are a pain in the butt




Open Diff -

The problem is an open diff always tries to balance the torque. That's a hard statement to get a grasp on, but it means that if the spider gears are pushing on both drive gears and one of them offers lots of resistance (tire sitting on pavement) and the other side offers no resistance (up in the air, or sitting on a patch of ice), then it will find a happy balance where both sides are receiving almost no torque at all. All the rotational energy is guided to the side with the least resistance. In the end, that side spins very fast and the pressure on each drive gear is the same.. Almost no torque is needed to spin one wheel, and therefore almost no torque is going to the other side as well. Anyone who's driven on snow or ice knows this trick.

Locking Diff -

Problem with a locking diff, is of course why we don't all just have solid axles. When you go to drive around a corner, both tires are forced to turn the same speed. Either one drags while the other spins a little, or probably the outside matches the ground speed (as the weight transfers) and the inside tire spins on the pavement (shorter distance to travel, but it's spinning as fast as the outside tire which has farther to go in the same time). Either way it tends to make the vehicle want to go straight all the time.

Limited Slip -

A limited slip differential is a compromise. We'd like a full locking diff in specific instances of extreme traction imbalance but otherwise would prefer operation closer to an open diff, so that the tires can turn at different speeds around corners.


Hope that helps explain it a bit to you....while lockers are good in a mudder....they are not practical in real life situations....thats the bottom line...

 

[digger]

Can get the GM's now with lockers from the factory. http://www.chevrolet.com/silverado/prelaunch/HTML/truck_rear_differential.jsp Was thinking they were on both the front and back? Don't think I would want it...

But mine is a street queen.

Heartbreak, what kind of gas mileage are you getting?
I've got the small V-8 in my Dakota. Doesn't do too bad. 16 in town, 21 on a trip? I'm not as heavy, but with the extended cab I don't like much.

 

[Aftrshck]

the 04 I have is an extended cab and I am getting 16 in the city and almost 19 when i travel up north for trips....I am pretty satisfied with that.....

 

[joneser4u]

don't laugh until you have seen my truck...its not a street queen....I have significant experience thank you. You believe how you want....and just for your information...I got your Jeep thang right here....and used penicillin to fix it

also...never once did i mention Z71.....tsk tsk...assumptions are a pain in the butt




Open Diff -

The problem is an open diff always tries to balance the torque. That's a hard statement to get a grasp on, but it means that if the spider gears are pushing on both drive gears and one of them offers lots of resistance (tire sitting on pavement) and the other side offers no resistance (up in the air, or sitting on a patch of ice), then it will find a happy balance where both sides are receiving almost no torque at all. All the rotational energy is guided to the side with the least resistance. In the end, that side spins very fast and the pressure on each drive gear is the same.. Almost no torque is needed to spin one wheel, and therefore almost no torque is going to the other side as well. Anyone who's driven on snow or ice knows this trick.

Locking Diff -

Problem with a locking diff, is of course why we don't all just have solid axles. When you go to drive around a corner, both tires are forced to turn the same speed. Either one drags while the other spins a little, or probably the outside matches the ground speed (as the weight transfers) and the inside tire spins on the pavement (shorter distance to travel, but it's spinning as fast as the outside tire which has farther to go in the same time). Either way it tends to make the vehicle want to go straight all the time.

Limited Slip -

A limited slip differential is a compromise. We'd like a full locking diff in specific instances of extreme traction imbalance but otherwise would prefer operation closer to an open diff, so that the tires can turn at different speeds around corners.


Hope that helps explain it a bit to you....while lockers are good in a mudder....they are not practical in real life situations....thats the bottom line...

lockers are plenty practical if they are flip of a switch? I can lock just front or just rear or both and vice/versa? once unlocked you have a normal diff making it practical for onroad adventures? Why you dissin lockers do you not understand that air locks & unlocks mine, you can also get electric? I dont have fulltime 4wheel drive unless I need or want it.whats not practical about that?

BTW lockers are not just for mud! 1 word "DIG" If you need me to explain this just LMK?

 

[Aftrshck]

I understand the whole concept of lockers and I have a set of electrics on another truck....I am just trying to get you to understand that 4wd vehicles are not just 1 wheel wonders.....thats all....no biggie...at least not to me....

but thanks...

 

[redneckracer1979]

I had a 69 Blazer with a 396 TH350 205 combo with a 44 front and 14 bolt rear that was shaved and my rear was spooled and that was it. It didn't unlock it just went. Now in my 44 front I ran a Detroit and loved that combo. 40 inch swampers and went anywhere I wanted to go. I also had a ex military 1 ton with the 14 bolt rear with a Detroit in it and drove that truck as my daily driver for 5 years never an issue on the street with the Detroit.

 

[joneser4u]

I understand the whole concept of lockers and I have a set of electrics on another truck....I am just trying to get you to understand that 4wd vehicles are not just 1 wheel wonders.....thats all....no biggie...at least not to me....

but thanks...

sorry if i sounded cocky,just know how much $$$ I have tied up in diffs,and let it be known I'm not ignorant to the subject. i understand alot of you guys 4x4's are daily drivers where my jeep is a toy and only comes out to play. so i see your point but for serious offroad factory slip units just dont cut it, most factory 4x4s I've seen when stuck in mud only have one wheel in front and back spin. not wanting a flame here,sorry again if it sounded that way,just thaught i was schoolin someone. but if you have electrics you know whats up.