450 6CH CP...as cheap as possible...

[Greywolf74]

cheap isnt something thats in my vocabulary very often mostly because cheap usually means piss o' crab
However i was poking around on another forum (ewwwww i feel dirty now....) I found a thread that demostarted how to build a decent quality HK450 from hobbycity.com for under $160 (minues Radio and lipos). Almost every comment in the 8 or more pages I read in that thread all sung the praises of this kit as being good for starters cause its price per crash and the price to get started is very low. Someone with more experience care to comment on this build or have any experience with this kit? I'm seriously thinking about going this route for my first kit.

One other question I have...this list pretty much all looks like stuff you would get a hobbyking.com. Are the two sites related somehow? I've never heard of hobbycity.

Complete Parts List
Updated 2-2-2009
www.hobbycity.com
Qty Item PN Price
1 HK-450 CCPM 3D Electric Helicopter Kit HK-450 $35.95
1 Turnigy 2836 Brushless 450-Size Heli Motor 3700kv T2836-3700 $16.69
1 Assan GA 410 Tail Lock Gyro GA-410 $49.95
3 HXT900 9g / 1.6kg / .12sec Micro Servo HXT900 $ 3.49
1 Digital high torque bearing servo 13.5g/2.2kg/.09sec HD-2216HB $18.41
1 TURNIGY Plush 30amp Speed Controller TR_P30A $18.49
1 TURNIGY BESC Programming Card TR_PC $ 6.95
Total Cost $156.91

One additional note, I noticed that I received a discount on the GA 410 Gyro as a gold
member on hobbycity.com My price for the Gyro was $33.92 which brought my total to
$140.88. I’m not sure what you need to do to get this discount but make sure you create
an account and log in before you make you purchase.

Additional Items needed
Battery of your choice 3S Lipo / Recommend Zippy 3S 2200 mah 20C ($17.99)
Pinion for the motor recommend 11 tooth for beginner
Screws to mount motor
3” servo wire extension
Velcro mounting tape
Gyro Mounting Tape (foam)
Pitch Gauge
Hex Drivers
Blue
Small Screwdrivers
Pliers
Medium CA
Transmitter & Receiver of your choice

 

[HPIguy]

The HK's are known to be decent helis for the money. The list looks okay provided you don't get any lemons in the bunch, and we all know it happens with HK stuff sometimes. The only advice I would give is I personally would spend the extra money to go flybarless if it were me. Having been there and done that, I now own zero flybarred helis, and will never own another. Flybarless "feels" very different when flying, more locked in and neutrally stable while in the air. Flybarred helis feel twitchy and nervous by comparison to me. There's also a lot less parts and linkages to replace and adjust after the inevitable happens.

Also, do you currently fly CP helis? If not, I strongly recommend starting with a micro CP such as a blade MCP X. That is THE single best purchase I have ever made in helis, and it's the heli I could learn to fly CP's with without worrying about crash damage. A couple crashes on a 450 will pretty much pay for one.

 

[Greywolf74]

The HK's are known to be decent helis for the money. The list looks okay provided you don't get any lemons in the bunch, and we all know it happens with HK stuff sometimes. The only advice I would give is I personally would spend the extra money to go flybarless if it were me. Having been there and done that, I now own zero flybarred helis, and will never own another. Flybarless "feels" very different when flying, more locked in and neutrally stable while in the air. Flybarred helis feel twitchy and nervous by comparison to me. There's also a lot less parts and linkages to replace and adjust after the inevitable happens.

Also, do you currently fly CP helis? If not, I strongly recommend starting with a micro CP such as a blade MCP X. That is THE single best purchase I have ever made in helis, and it's the heli I could learn to fly CP's with without worrying about crash damage. A couple crashes on a 450 will pretty much pay for one.

Yeah I know how HK stuff sometimes isnt quite up to snuff from time to time. I do not currently fly...looking to put my foot in the door somewhere...just taking my time looking at various stuff and reading right now...I'm not really into micros. I know they are less likely to break as badly if you crash one and they are probably cheaper to fix but I hate working on them...they are to small. At lest thats what killed it for me when it came to micro ground kits. Thats why I'm thinking of going this route. Some of the guys that I know on base that I know fly Helis keep telling me to "man up" and buy these big like 600 and 700 nitro helis cuz thats what they learned on....I'm like ummmm yeah you're an engineer and probably make like 3 times my income lol. at any rate I digress...

So if FBL is more natural and stable then whats the purpose of flybars?

Can the HK450 be bought or converted into FBL?

Is the Flysky TH9X an OK radio to learn with? I already bought one a couple years back to use with the Sim I bought so I'm hoping to just get started with it and upgrade later on down the road if I stick with Helis.

 

[HPIguy]

If you do not currently fly at all (no coaxials or fixed pitch helis either?), then starting out with CP helis is a bad idea. I'm going to say that again to drive it home, starting out with CP helis is a BAD idea. But, it's your money.

Micros might be a PITA to work on, but if you fly over grass that is even a few inches tall and remember to hit throttle hold, you usually won't break anything and can go right back in the air. That greatly accelerates the learning curve, not to mention it greatly deccelerates the frustration factor when it comes to CP helis.

The guys that are telling you that are a holes, plain and simple, ignore them.

I did what you're doing and dove in head first years ago and started out on a cp heli, skipping all the time tested steps before that. I'm no rocket surgeon, but I'm not an idiot either. I figured how hard can it be, it's a toy helicopter? I quit helis compeltely after about a year. I came back to them years later going through the recommended stages of progression, and I've had a blast and can fly a CP heli decently and do some mild aerobatics and bring back in one piece.

Flybarless doesn't feel natural, it is neutrally stable. Meaning when you place the heli into an orientation, it tends to hold that orientation better than a flybarred heli due to the fact it has a computer system doing just that onboard. Flybars are also there to provide stability, they just feel diffrerent when you fly them.

I run an RJX head on my T Rex, and prefer it to the genuine Align part. It's beefier and a better design IMO. You could run that, or pick up a HK branded one that's likely very similar here.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/RC_PRODUCT_SEARCH.asp?searchType=10&strSearch=flybarless head&location=AL&idCategory=&sortBy=Relevant&NumPerPage=20&currentPage=1

You will also need a FBL flight controller, and they range from cheap to super expensive. Do your research before buying, nothing sucks worse than fighting bad electronics while in the air.

I have no experience with that radio system, so I can't comment on that.

CP helis have a learning curve not only for flying them, but for setting them up mechanically also. And you'll need some special tools like a pitch gauge (I prefer the digital system from RC Logger, money well spent), ball link pliers, etc. Setting up the FBL (flybarless) computer adds another learning curve all it's own.

I still think you'd be better served starting with a micro CP, or even something like the Blade 200 size bird in the beginning. That at least skips learning to setup the FBL system portion of it, and it should fl decent right out of the box (though you should always do a mechanical setup on every heli before you fly it). Better yet, if you've never flown at all, get an SR 120 fixed pitch, once you can fly that then move on to CP helis. But again, it's your money. Just remember, takes offs are optional, but landings are mandatory. Good luck!

 

[Greywolf74]

Thanks for the info...I was originally looking at the 120SR to start with and I may still do so...I'm not sure yet...but I am sure I'm not doing micro anything...at least not ultra micro lol The guys at work arent jerks they are actually quite helpful with my questions but they all learned together on big nitros and they are very opinionated on just jumping into CP with both feet. Apparently they rigged up some sort of training kit on them using some wood and a hula hoop lol. If I were to start out with CP though it certainly be one of those big expensive kits. I dont even know if its something I'll stick with yet. Ok, you got me leaning back toward starting off with the 120SR or something FP. Are there any decent mini sized FBL 4CH FP Helis?

 

[Greywolf74]

NVM about the 4CH FP FBL....seems like theres only a couple and theyre all quite big. I know you guys probably think me foolish but I can't help shake the feeling that if I'm gonna learn to fly I might as well start off with what I'm gonna fly eventually and thats a 6CH CP. Seems like you would just learn habits on a FP that you would just have to break later on a CP? I think i have decided to get FBL though HPIguy and I'm probably gonna start with a micro (God, I can't believe I'm saying that lol). The Blade MCP X while pricey is looking good. I also like the looks of the Walkera VP120D02S but I dont know a thing about the DEVO radios...Are they any good or not really? All that being said, I'm not saying I'm hell bent on starting with CP I'm just having a hard time convincing myself not to. If I got overly frustrated I could always break down and buy a 4CH FP at that time maybe? IDK...gonna have to think about that some more.

Do the RF modules that plug into the trainer ports that allow you to fly a BNF with any radio good or are they crappy?

I'm tempted to maybe buy a cheap 30 dollar 4CH FP micro just to start off with but i dont want to buy any real amount of money on a kit that once I get past it I'll probably never touch again.

Thanks for putting up with all my noob questions and possibly noobish attitude

 

[HPIguy]

Seems like you would just learn habits on a FP that you would just have to break later on a CP?

You mean stuff like learning to hover, orientation, and forward flight? LOL Sorry couldn't resist. FP helis are still fun even after you learn CP helis, especially indoors.

I think i have decided to get FBL though HPIguy and I'm probably gonna start with a micro (God, I can't believe I'm saying that lol). The Blade MCP X while pricey is looking good. I also like the looks of the Walkera VP120D02S but I dont know a thing about the DEVO radios...Are they any good or not really? All that being said, I'm not saying I'm hell bent on starting with CP I'm just having a hard time convincing myself not to. If I got overly frustrated I could always break down and buy a 4CH FP at that time maybe? IDK...gonna have to think about that some more.

Do the RF modules that plug into the trainer ports that allow you to fly a BNF with any radio good or are they crappy?

I'm tempted to maybe buy a cheap 30 dollar 4CH FP micro just to start off with but i dont want to buy any real amount of money on a kit that once I get past it I'll probably never touch again.

Thanks for putting up with all my noob questions and possibly noobish attitude

Stay away from the Walkeras, they have some decent helis, and some real junk. But the bigger issue is parts support later on. They're famous for jumping ship and abandoning they're owners. Blade and Align both make good entry level helis, buy whatever you have parts support for locally. I just prefer the Blade line as my MCP X has been tough as nails, and it feels bigger than it is in the air. I still recommend grabbing an MSR or SR 120 to start with though. Again, there's a recommended progression for a good reason. Also, FP birds are super simple to repair when you crash, unlike CP helis that will take a few hours of mechanical setup after each and every crash. Those training gear you attach to the heli just make it fly all weird to be honest, and as soon as you remove them it will feel a lot different and you'll have to get used to the bird all over again. Also, a good computer radio makes a huge difference when you go to a CP heli. You can tone down even the twitchiest nastiest 3D machine and make it a docile starter CP.

You can get a Blade MSR for $60 RTF these days, and can fly it outside on calm days. No reason not to go FP from the start IMHO.

 

[Greywolf74]

You mean stuff like learning to hover, orientation, and forward flight? LOL Sorry couldn't resist. FP helis are still fun even after you learn CP helis, especially indoors.

I was thinking along the lines of using RPMs to control your altitude (FP) instead of blade pitch (CP)? Or do I not know what I'm talking about?

Stay away from the Walkeras, they have some decent helis, and some real junk. But the bigger issue is parts support later on. They're famous for jumping ship and abandoning they're owners. Blade and Align both make good entry level helis, buy whatever you have parts support for locally. I just prefer the Blade line as my MCP X has been tough as nails, and it feels bigger than it is in the air. I still recommend grabbing an MSR or SR 120 to start with though. Again, there's a recommended progression for a good reason. Also, FP birds are super simple to repair when you crash, unlike CP helis that will take a few hours of mechanical setup after each and every crash. Those training gear you attach to the heli just make it fly all weird to be honest, and as soon as you remove them it will feel a lot different and you'll have to get used to the bird all over again. Also, a good computer radio makes a huge difference when you go to a CP heli. You can tone down even the twitchiest nastiest 3D machine and make it a docile starter CP.

You can get a Blade MSR for $60 RTF these days, and can fly it outside on calm days. No reason not to go FP from the start IMHO.

Good to know about the Walkeras. I am gonna pick up some sort of 4CH FP and just bite the bullet I suppose so I guess that leads me to another question. Is there any reason not to get a cheap one instead of a Blade MSR? I mean I know the MSR is only $60 but the HK190 is only $28 plus shipping RTF. Thanks for the heads up on the MSR price btw, when I was look around last week I could have sworn it was $99 for the RTF. $60 is easier to swallow for a micro 4CH FP than $99 but if the $28 version will teach me the same thing then I might just go that route. IDK what do you think? Is the MSR worth the extra $32 bucks? You got me sold on starting with the FP but now I'm just wondering how cheaply I can get by with the FP but not have a POS either.

I'm not worried about local parts support because I rarely ever go to my LHS...its like 45 minutes from me. I just order all my stuff online. What do you mean by "computer radio"? I'm not familiar with that term? Is that just a programmable radio?

 

[hamz9561]

Two words for the MSR: Replacement parts.

Horizon is extremely good about getting parts out quickly and a lot of LHSs carry parts for their stuff in stock.

A computer radio is programmable and allows for the personalization of various features and dual rates.

 

[Greywolf74]

Two words for the MSR: Replacement parts.

Horizon is extremely good about getting parts out quickly and a lot of LHSs carry parts for their stuff in stock.

A computer radio is programmable and allows for the personalization of various features and dual rates.

Ok, so a Blade it is...but you guys are confusing me with this computer radio bit...when you say its programable are you refering to the firmware as in an iopen source radio or do you just mean any good radio that you can set mixs and stuff in?

 

[hamz9561]

The mixes are programmable. Most of the better radios don't have open-source firmware as it tends to not be as reliable as the firmware developed by the companies for their radios.

 

[sur3fir3]

@Greywolf74 My experience with helis was lackluster to say the best. I found that I am learning everything much faster with my quad. (meaning orientation, stability in flight, and other basics.) With the heli, the learning curve was so steep that I never made it to learning any of the basics. Not to mention the quads are much cheaper.

 

[Greywolf74]

I still havent actually bought a kit cuz I'm afraid to buy something that sucks or I'll end up regretting buying lol...everyone seems to recommend different stuff to start with I've seen a group of people who recommend quads to start but quads dont really look appealing to me so I havent really given them much thought. I havent ruled them out yet though....I may just order 2 or 3 different kits and see where I end up and do a video about all of my thoughts about getting into Helis as a hobby

 

[sur3fir3]

they have acro quads, like the one I got. Also FPV, and many others. The best thing about the armattans is the lifetime warranty on the frame. if you break anything u get a new replacement part free. You wont find that with any other quad manufacturer, much less helis. I am working on a video for my armattan, when i get it done I wil post it. Take a look at armattan quads. http://www.armattanquads.com/

 

[hamz9561]

I've been looking at the Blade 200QX. It's a brushless quad and with the new 3d props and firmware, it can hover inverted. The only thing stopping me is a lack of funds for the moment (Vanquish axles are expensive).

 

[sur3fir3]

I just went out and tried to get some video, but it was shaky; I am going to redo it later. I decided to stay away from blade and other major manufacturers because I want to fly my quad acrobatically, and if I did that with any other quad I would be replacing arms and center plates daily.

 

[HPIguy]

I only fly acro with my DJI F450, and I've broken one arm and around 5 props in over a year of flying. Like sur3fir3, I prefer to build my quads and pick my own electronics package. They key to acro flight is good ESC's (simon K firmware) and a good flight controller (I only fly Openpilot boards) IMO. The helis are still fun, but I honestly think I enjoy flying the acro quad more as it's more fogiving, and more stable.

 

[sur3fir3]

I only fly acro with my DJI F450, and I've broken one arm and around 5 props in over a year of flying. Like sur3fir3, I prefer to build my quads and pick my own electronics package. They key to acro flight is good ESC's (simon K firmware) and a good flight controller (I only fly Openpilot boards) IMO. The helis are still fun, but I honestly think I enjoy flying the acro quad more as it's more fogiving, and more stable.

Lol I break multiple props in under 2 hours. I like the armattan because of the warranty on their 4mm twill carbon fiber arms and the 2 mm center plates. You just can't beat a transferable lifetime warranty.