Webpage design

[4u2nv]

When it comes to this stuff I'm a total moron so I can use all the help I can get. So knowing I dont know anything about it, I called a guy and asked him to build me one. Well his prices were very cheap (Or at least i thought anyway) so I had him whip me up what I thought would be a example of what my site might look like, but it looks like hes full blown into now. Thats fine I guess, but I'm not real excited about the way its looking so far. I gave him a simple design of "Andys Graphix" which when he added it to the site it looked really choppy and actually pretty cheasy. (I have a auto club called atomicz (atomicz.com) and a buddy had built that, (but couldnt build my new one due to lack of time) but I think that site spoiled me, cuz its pretty nice) so I guess I was kinda expecting the same. I wanted to get a site with some flash and also some audio on the front intro page, but he tried to steer me away from it. What do you guys think? He said he thinks its annoying, and alot of people dont like it, but I think it makes it more, unique, and more professional looking and takes away from the "Homade webpage" look. I'm kinda thinking the guy might not know how to do it, and being he jumped right into it, I feel kinda locked with him, ya know? (Whys this thread feel more like a blog?) Anyway, I guess I'm just curious if theres any of you web design junkies out there, that would be willing to lend a hand to help me out and point me in the right direction of getting what I want up there. again keep in mind that I'm kind of a computer moron, so bear with me. Again, help would be VERY VERY appriciated!

 

[RatzoRC]

Andy, I'm going to be 100% honest here, and don't want you to be offended.
The audio on the home pages of sites annoy the hell out of me.
You don't sound very excited, so that means you don't like the work.
Also, don't feel because this guy jumped in with two feet, that he gets the job.
Even if he's cheap, you will have to look at this site all the time.
Don't settle for what he wants, you tell him what you want.
If it looks like poop, tell him it looks like poop.
If your too nice to tell him, call me on the phone, tell me exactly what you want, and i'll call him.
I deal with people all the time on the phone. Not many salesmen like me, but i'm the customer, and have to get specifically what I need.
Don't settle for something you don't like!!

 

[Plaidfish]

^^^What he said^^^
he's not giving his CUSTOMER good SERVICE if he's doing what he wants to....

 

[FastEddy]

I could go on forever with this subject. You have a few choices.
First, its your site and it should look and feel however you want it to. With that said, there are a lot of things to think about.

How much do you want to spend?
What is the main purpose of your site.
What features do you want?
What are other sites you like and why do you like them?

These are just a few questions that need to be answered before you get going. You are going to find that designers fall into 2 categories. Ones that want to show off what they can do with the web and ones that will do what you ask them to do. Yes others fall in the middle bet for the most part this is what you will find.

I tend to do it a little differently. Why pay to re-invent the wheel? There are many free / low cost web site scripts out there. You can have someone install it, add your banner to the top, change a few colors and your up and going. Just a few examples are....

www.rcnitrotalk.com
www.inksale.com
www.rcrush.com

A good amount of the sites you are used to looking at fall into this category. They can be up and going to the point of being usable in a matter of hours. From there you can customize them to your likening.

If you make a list of what your looking for in a site I / other members can point you in the right direction.

At one point flash and sound were way cool just like a mullet cut. Web users now seem to want info cut and dry without all the flash and glitter. Speed of access is now the cool thing.

Post some info on what you want and we can see if there is a quick and easy way to get you up and going.

 

[4u2nv]

Andy, I'm going to be 100% honest here, and don't want you to be offended.
The audio on the home pages of sites annoy the hell out of me.
You don't sound very excited, so that means you don't like the work.

I guess I wasn't looking for music, what I was thinking was a "Welcome to Andys Graphix" on a intro page. That was pretty much it. And your right, when I see where its at right now, I'm not very excited. When I look at it, it looks Homade to me. I dunno, like I said I think I might just be spoiled with good sites like this one and my auto clubs webpages. I guess I just want it to look the most proffesional it can, and not look like a kid trying to say..um.. glowsticks? I wont have a problem telling the guy I dont like it, hes already gotten some feedback from me when he had the colors bright enough to make my eyes bleed, so that part wont be a prob. I guess I'm just worried about the part that he bought the domain name.

Eddie, I'm not sure what I'm looking to spend. Since its my buisness and thats where my income is coming from, I'm not to afraid to drop some cash in on it, but also want it to be reasonable ya know?
The purpose of the site is for my buisness, so like I said, I want it to look professional of course, and also easy to use, and apeal to everything that has to do with vinyl graphics, signs and decals.
The features I'm looking at are pretty tame. Eventually get a online store, have some pics of past work, a instructions link, a "about me", some products, link to whats on ebay from Andys graphix, and also some ballpark prices. I dont need anything too intricut, and really aint that picky, just really want to keep it the most professional looking as I can keep it.

 

[FastEddy]

This site here took about 2 hours to get up and going.
http://www.batterypax.com/zen/
If something like this fits your needs, Let me know.
This is what it looks like out of the box with no mods.
http://www.batterypax.com/shop/

And its free software.

 

[supersavage]

Do you suppose he jumped right on it because no one else has given him much work?

I'm not sure how domain names work, but you could probably pay him back for it and give it to someone else to build your page. Take a look at some other webpages from some other local businesses and see who did theirs. This can show you whos work you like and maybe a better starting point.

After you're up and running, look into adding your business and website to the yellow pages. I use yahoo yellow pages extensivelly and love their links to the businesses webpage.

I've seen samples of your work on here, and you deserve the best representaion you can get. Especially if you pay for it. Good luck!

 

[4u2nv]

Eddy that http://www.batterypax.com/zen/ page is almost exactly what I'm looking for! It has the links for extras, and has the store, its perfect. Of course Id like to add some of my own twists to it, but thats minor stuff. Looks about 110 times better than what I got now, and what has taken this guy 3 weeks to do.. Shoot me a pm on what ya would charge to throw something like that up for me? What I liked about this guy the most was that hed teach me how to maintain it and change stuff myself. But thats perfect man..

And savage, thanks for the kind words. it means alot! I thinkt he guy kinda lacks in the experiance dept. but is learning, and my page is more or less a learning experiance for him. I'm not in a rush or anything, but would like it up in a resonable amount of time, ya know? And not to be a jerk, but to be more or less a ginny pig for his new web stuff..... But hopefully with some help I can get it looking how Id like, and get it lookin good.

 

[rocknbil]

... I called a guy and asked him to build me one. Well his prices were very cheap ...

Allow me a small rant here.

I've been a web developer - design, back end programming, everything - for over 8 years, and I've recently thrown in the towel to work on my OWN projects instead of everyone else's. One of the main reason's I'm doing this (there are others) is this right here - there are MILLIONS of two-bit hacks out there that buy or steal some software and now all of a sudden they're a "professional developer." So I'm sick of competing in a market where these guys/girls get all the work.

BUT. The REASON they get all the work is no one wants to pay for ANYTHING. Then complain about it after the fact. Bottom line is still that you get what you pay for.

Eddy's able to make those free solutions work because he himself has the moxy to figure it out.

I gave him a simple design of "Andys Graphix" which when he added it to the site it looked really choppy and actually pretty cheasy.

A "good" web developer will excel not only in page creation but graphics and all other related "object" files, you've obviously bargained yourself into an amateur.

I wanted to get a site with some flash and also some audio on the front intro page, but he tried to steer me away from it. What do you guys think? He said he thinks its annoying, and alot of people dont like it, but I think it makes it more, unique, and more professional looking and takes away from the "Homade webpage" look.

Professionally, there are some things you DO NOT DO on a web page:
- scrolling marquis
- "hit" counter
- Animated GIFS
- Frames
- Embedded sound files
- The words "CLICK HERE"
- The words "WELCOME TO DOMAIN NAME.COM"
- Design something that only works in one browser, then be stupid enough to put "This site optimized for XX browser" on the page. That SCREAMS "I don't know WTF I'm doing, so now it's your problem."
- Gateway pages (Bla Bla Bla click here to enter the site. I thought i was ALREADY on your site you dumbass . . .)

There are more, but use of these things falls under the category of "stupid web tricks." Putting sound files in your home page will SCREAM amateur (and make it even more "home-made.") You don't use sound files on a page because of simple user-visitor courtesy: people visit sites at work, when their partners are sleeping, and in general don't want to be startled by an unexpected sound.

Use of any of these things is like some 10-year-old jumping in a lake screaming "Hey mom! Look what I can do!"

As for Flash: The problem with most "Flash" sites are that it's usually all-or-nothing, they do the entire page in Flash or none at all. There is NOTHING wrong with Flash if you follow one simple rule: Build your page so it functions EXACTLY the same if Flash is disabled. The most stupid (and annoying) thing anyone can do is use Flash navigation. But I look and J.H.C., they're all over the place! LOL . . . .

This guy's explanation itself is amateur. "duuuuuhhhhh . . . errrr . . . . nobuddy likes 'em." It tells me he's picked up a few buzzwords and terms and doesn't **really** know his ass from a hole in the ground. If you ask someone a question and they give you an explanation you don't fully understand, you're most likely dealing with someone who knows their poop. If their answer is vague and does not quote specific references, you're dealing with an amateur.

But given the other conditions, you're probably right. Most likely he hasn't been able to HACK/STEAL a copy of Flash, or just plain can't figure it out, FlashMX is a pretty complex program, took me about a year to fully grasp it without benefit of clases and seminars.

I guess I'm just curious if theres any of you web design junkies out there, that would be willing to lend a hand to help me out and point me in the right direction of getting what I want up there.

Andy I would LOVE to help you but I probably can't, do you know why? I can't afford to. Don't take this wrong: you're looking for something cheap and affordable. That is COMPLETELY understandable. But I can tell you from experience, to get you a GOOD site, one you'll be happy with, is going to involve anywhere from 4-20 weeks of on and off work, adding up to probably from 20-60 hours of work. At the rate most people want to pay, that works out to about 50 cents an hour. What would that be worth to YOU?

This is why I'm not doing web design/development for people any more, just my own projects and custom work for people that understand the value if it. I can't touch a project for less than $1500, and even then I am very VERY cautious about actually taking the work, and with all I'm doing most of the time I couldn't touch it for a month out. Turned down a $2500 project yesterday because he wanted me to start it before August 30th.

My advice to you would be to tell him to not quit his day job and go back to school, pay the guy and take the loss as a learning experience, and turn your mind to paying a little more, but do your homework before taking on another contract. You might get out of paying him, and if he's totally misrepresented his talents - you SHOULD. Sometimes it's just easer to pay the money and move on.

Hope this has been remotely enightening.

 

[RatzoRC]

Small rant?? woah

J/k

 

[FastEddy]

Well said.
I do my own personal sites for fun, nothing else.
Do I trust myself to do the site I make a living with, NO fiddlesticking WAY!!!!
I paid good money for my commercial site to be developed and it went exactly like rocknbil said. It took close to 4 months to do the customization of an out of the box solution.

Here are some tips I wrote on another forum on how to make sure you are getting what you want, when you want it, and know how much it will cost.
http://www.zen-cart.com/modules/ipb/index.php?showtopic=18658

I have tried the do it yourself routine as well as get a friend to do it and have also arainged for an "Up and coming" Developer. You get what you pay for. I had no issues with paying 3-4k for a proved professional to do my site. Its money well spent.

 

[msly]

Andy, I'm going to be 100% honest here, and don't want you to be offended.
The audio on the home pages of sites annoy the hell out of me.
You don't sound very excited, so that means you don't like the work.
Also, don't feel because this guy jumped in with two feet, that he gets the job.
Even if he's cheap, you will have to look at this site all the time.
Don't settle for what he wants, you tell him what you want.
If it looks like poop, tell him it looks like poop.
If your too nice to tell him, call me on the phone, tell me exactly what you want, and i'll call him.
I deal with people all the time on the phone. Not many salesmen like me, but i'm the customer, and have to get specifically what I need.
Don't settle for something you don't like!!

Yea let Ratzo do it... he is a professional scum bag LOL.

Rocknbill is 100 percent on point in his opinion on this subject. I look at it this way. It cost money to run a business, and nothing can be more important then the way the public views your web presence. If it look professional then you are professional, if it looks cheap and cheesy then most people are going to view your work that way...... and this has nothing to do with your ability or product or service you are offering.

If money is tight you certainly can get away with something that Eddy is suggesting.... just ditch the other site... and fast... I would rather you have a plain coming soon page then the hack page that exist there now. No offense to you or the person that built it.... but it seems that anyone who has frontpage things he is a web developer now days.... it takes tremendous skill and know how to build a page that makes a statement and works properly. Plus there are ways to code your page that helps with google searches etc that is just as important as the page it self. You would want people that plug certain words in google get to your page first or at least in the top 3 or so.

Just some things to think about but if you want my honest opinion ditch the other page quick.....


sLY

 

[4u2nv]

If I could get a page like the link Eddy showed me, Id be more than happy. It looks good, nice and clean and is easy to use. Like I said before I dont need anything to flashy with all these little tricks and such. Just something that basically explains what I do, a way to reach me and some pics of my previous work. Its vinyl graphics and signs, not brain surgery..lol.. I also like RushRc's site to, cuz its nice and clean, an dlooks professional. The guy thats doing it now, I think Ill let him finish it, and see what it looks like then. And if no good, Then Ill pitch it. I told the guy right up front I wanted a example page before I did anything, so if I aint happy, he needs to change it to make me happy, or Ill go somewhere else. Theres alot of webpage builders out there, so it wont be hard to replace. And like I said, I'm not really concerned with droping money on it, since it is my buisness's page, But like anyone, they go for the best price with the nicest work.

 

[FastEddy]

I will put you in touch with someone that can get you setup for a reasonable price.
You will need to read the post in the link above in order to get a proper price.

 

[4u2nv]

Sounds good! I appriciate the help!

 

[4u2nv]

Man I've had it with this butthead I have "Building" my page. Dude hasnt touched it in 2 weeks, and hasnt touched it since I told him I was unhappy with it. And I also emailed him the links of 6 different webpages I would have liked it to be like. Didnt have to be exactly alike, but how I would have liked to have poop laid out. I have sent him numerous emails, and got nothing in reply, and have been calling him for the last 3 days and havnt got a reply back from that either. I was out riding dirtbike though and seen him out riding horse (he stables at my neighbors) so I hurried up and pulled in to where he was to ask him what the hell was going on, and he hurried up and told me he had to run, and couldnt talk. I told him to call me or at least email me back and we can get this poop going, but nothing. GRRR this guy is a idiot and I'm about ready to pull my hair out.. Or go and pull his out.. One of the two.

 

[cvec7]

A little off topic but anyone know what would be required if I wanted to start my own little web-hosting company besides some kind of server. Like, mainly what speed (MBPS) connection would I need?

Thanks in advance...

 

[msly]

A little off topic but anyone know what would be required if I wanted to start my own little web-hosting company besides some kind of server. Like, mainly what speed (MBPS) connection would I need?

Thanks in advance...

You would do much better asking that question on this forum

http://www.webhostingtalk.com/

 

[cvec7]

Thanks msly, I'll be sure to check that out... :thumbup:

 

[billypratt75]

I totally agree with rocknbil. I have been trying to get a graphic/ web design business going for the past year, but no one wants to pay for it. They don't understand what goes into these types of things, and they want it cheap. I started off taking whatever business I could get, but after realizing that I wasn't making any money, I quit doing anything for under 5000.00. You do get what you pay for and just about anyone these days can pick up software and learn it well enough to throw something together, but that's not what web design is.
If you have something in the works, I would be happy to look at it for you and get you going in the right direction. I know it's hard to work with people who have horrible customer service. Let me know.