Spring Rate

[big kal]

Does anyone know what a good starting spring rate is? Do you want the rear to have a softer or stiffer spring and vise versa for the front? I'm not too sure if I understand springrate.

 

[HumboldtBlazer]

I use a little softer setup in the front of my buggy than the rear. I dont know if that is true on every track but it would make sense to me. There is more weight in the back from the egine so you want stiffer in the back for jumping reasons (so you dont bottom out). I use a little softer in the front because I let the front suspension soak more bumps up as it is doing all the steering. I use a medium spring in the back with a top dual rate spring that is firm (to prevent bottoming out) and 45-50 wt oil. In the front I use the soft spring with a medium dual rate at the top and 35-40 wt oil. with a buggy you want to make sure you have anti squat this means that your a arms are like this / \ instead of this \ / (angel is exaderated).

here is a great article:
http://www.twf8.ws/new/tech/shocks/springratetester.html

and yet another:
http://www.twf8.ws/new/tech/tip/shock.html

That site helped me understand SO much about buggies, those guys should win an award.

 

[big kal]

Originally posted by humboldtblazer
with a buggy you want to make sure you have anti squat this means that your a arms are like this / \ instead of this \ / (angel is exaderated).

As I was reading the articles on TWF8 regarding springs and shocks, it says that the arms should be at a "v" just short of horizontal.

Your post says the opposite My question is am I reading your post incorrectly Blazer?

Thanks for the tips on the articles.

 

[militarymaxx]

Here's a link (nice pic included) of basic shock geometry. I know I often overlook this option and focus too much on springs and oil weights. It's worth a look.

http://user.cs.tu-berlin.de/~lunde/tipsengl.html#tips

 

[HumboldtBlazer]

ok that wasn't a good mental image. Here is what you dont want for off-road

That has a lot of SQUAT



This is anti SQUAT

no thats not the best picture to show it but notice the ends of the A-arms are at a lower point than the center front of the buggy and that is what you want.

 

[militarymaxx]

Good pic blazer, better than my mine (nice pink body by the way, LOL). I drop my buggy from about 10 inches and when it comes to rest, the front and rear A arms are level. Good test ?

 

[HumboldtBlazer]

it should rebound from that drop though. I personally have set my buggy up like that where the A-arms are perpindicular or level and it sucked for me. I always like a little anti squat myself.

 

[FastEddy]

Originally posted by militarymaxx
(nice pink body by the way, LOL).

LOL all you want. Ill bet I can see my truck wherever it is on the track. :winnar: Only real men drive pink RCs.

 

[HumboldtBlazer]

that was his pink AD by the way. The reason he has so much squat on it is he on road oval races that thing. Hey Eddy tell WoodiE we need a smiley just like that winna one but with the number 3 on it not 1

3rd place Eddy.........................:sniper:

 

[DarthRacer]

Originally posted by humboldtblazer
that was his pink AD by the way. The reason he has so much squat on it is he on road oval races that thing. Hey Eddy tell WoodiE we need a smiley just like that winna one but with the number 3 on it not 1

3rd place Eddy.........................:sniper:

I can get one... BRB

 

[militarymaxx]

Ok, Ok, I concede to the pink one. All hail the Pink. I don't use colors to find my ride. I look for the one leading the race, that's usually mine. Stop ! Stop ! No more smack talking. Sorry, got carried away. Seriously though, good point on the color. I have often thought of getting some day-glo color for a body for that very reason - to better locate it. Fast, when you say anti-squat, do you mean positive squat (slightly up from level ) ? When I drop mine from 10 " it just about bottoms out then returns to level, so I guess that's some rebound.

 

[DarthRacer]

 

[FastEddy]

Ouch you sure know how to kick a guy in the nads.
It wouldn't be so bad if there were more than 3 cars to finish the race.:shrug:

 

[HumboldtBlazer]

dont worry about the smack talking as Eddy and I really do not take it at all personal. Some ribbing is fun and this board would suck without it. Feel free to speak your mind Military, if you dont like pink tell Eddy he's a fag. He is real close to SF you know.

 

[militarymaxx]

3 cars, heck I can only win in a solo race, what r u talking about ?
I bought the buggy to race, but haven't yet entered one. My confidence isn't there yet. As a matter of fact, I'm heading out to the track here in just a few, soon as my humpback is done charging. Track is a little moist and I want to try out my new
step pins.

 

[HumboldtBlazer]

Originally posted by militarymaxx
Ok, Ok, I concede to the pink one. All hail the Pink. I don't use colors to find my ride. I look for the one leading the race, that's usually mine. Stop ! Stop ! No more smack talking. Sorry, got carried away. Seriously though, good point on the color. I have often thought of getting some day-glo color for a body for that very reason - to better locate it. Fast, when you say anti-squat, do you mean positive squat (slightly up from level ) ? When I drop mine from 10 " it just about bottoms out then returns to level, so I guess that's some rebound.

Just think of what you do when you squat (open, yes left wide open) you get closer to the ground right? So the more squat you have the closer to the ground and the less travel you have. If you have some anti squat your A-arms will not be level that is 0 squat or poop its zero anti squat also. So you are right in the middle of what you want and dont want. You have a Storm right? Are you using the stock A-arm holders? You can buy different ones to adjust the anti squat. Also what springs do you use? Are they the stock RTR springs? If so that is SO much of the problem. Also if you do not fill the shocks all the way and were talking an 1/8 of and inch too low or too high for the oil level and this will throw everything off. If not enough fluid was put in your rebound would be like you are explaining to me. If they are to full it rebounds too quick and shortly you will damage the shocks (blow a bladder, or bend a piston). All I can say is Military you ask great questions and I can tell you will get the hang of it.

have a good time practicing at the track. The way I approach it is I drive real slow around the track for like 20 mins getting used to what lines work and dont work, skip the jumps for now or just go slow over them until you get the hang of the layout. Slowly as the laps go on try certian sections with a little bit more speed and adjust your line if needed. Just dont feel the need like since your at the track you have to balls out rip it up.

 

[militarymaxx]

Heck, asking the right questions is the easy part, finding answers is the challenge. But you guys get me through. Yes, stock on all the susupension stuff, except I have the Hardcore Ti towers. I have re-filled the stock shocks with 35 wt oil, flush to the top of the tube. And I wasn't aware of aftermarket lower A-arms. I noticed that the inner most mounting position us basically un-usable with any of the shock tower holes, it binds. To use that hole, the shock would have to be just about completely vertical.
Stock springs - Yes. I plan on getting the sets from GS that horizon carries (both the long and the shorties) all three colors.
You would recommend this ? And maybe some real nice mugne shocks my LHS has (about $60 a set). Get these also ?
My checkbook awaits.........

 

[HumboldtBlazer]

they are not aftermarket A-arms but the holders themselves

go here and look at the different degrees of the hinge pin holders

http://www.gsracing.com.tw/search_list.php?search=hinge+pin+holder

also on the springs make sure you get mediums and shorts for the front and longs and shorts for the rear.

 

[big kal]

Alright, I get it now. Good pics to illustrate your point Blazer. Time to start making adjustments. I think I'm going to pick up some Kyosho springs for the buggy. Thanks guys.

 

[HumboldtBlazer]

Mugen makes awesome stuff so suspect the quality of the shocks are second to none but me myself have not used them. Ask FlyingRazorback he would be a better info source on the Mugen stuff.:thumbup: