Smitty's ultimate thread.

[smittyzz]

Landed a nose dive on left front tire looking at kit, and the fact that the temps out were low, I was running threw snow and I landed just on that one side it was enough, I was jumping onto about 3-4 inches of snow, a nice padding but that didn't help with the horrible jump into noise dive on the frozen ground.
I still will not complain as I know its my fault if you guys know what I mean.

 

[Nitro Nerd]

Fair enough. So my question is do you agree or disagree that the arms breaking are an issue with this kit? And yes, I do take somewhat comfort in hearing you have not broken yours.

And take it for what you will - but we (especially I) have crashed two ways: often and horrifically..and I have yet to break an a-arm (to the point of it being unusable). It could be 2 feet or 40. but it's as high as I've ever seen. My point Smitty saying he's running it harder than normal - we both know a track is where vehicles can get chewed up. We bash too - hard. But me driving a truggy on a track with big jumps is the most violent action you'll ever seen in a nitro vehicle. ;-) We pre-jump in the street 6-7 feet just to warm up.

And let's be honest...there is a greater than zero chance you might have it built incorrectly, Smitty. I hate to say it but that is what I'm rooting for, as I want this truggy to be rugged as much as anyone. Have you performed any research (outside of this forum) to determine if its a known issue? Take a look. Like I said, almost every vehicle has its flaws, so you can either put up with it or fix it for good (solve it),

 

[Sixtysixdeuce]

So my question is do you agree or disagree that the arms breaking are an issue with this kit?

I'd have to say no more than any other kit. The 801s and my MGT 3.0 are the only kits I haven't broken arms on yet, and I'm going with that's simply because I don't have all that much time on them. My RC10 buggies, RC10Ts, GTs, GT2s, Prolite 4x4, OFNA Ultra Comp, Losi Mega Baja, even my Nitro TC3 have all needed arms/carriers/caster blocks/steering blocks at some point.

Honestly, I'm surprised I didn't break anything besides 2 body posts on Sunday. Such a small track with such a powerful truggy, I must've hit the wall with it a dozen times, and I nosed it into the back side of landings several times, trying to find a happy spot after severely overshooting them. Body developed a couple cracks, but no suspension or chassis damage at all.

By comparison, my Prolite suffered a fractured diff housing and broken front bumper mount after about 10 minutes, and I broke two more rear wheels on my RC10T. It's not a rough track, but the way they have it laid out right now, certain mistakes are very unforgiving. My Prolite has yet to come home from there in one piece, although I usually get more time out of it than 10 min.

I'm sure I will break the arms at some point, which is why I have 3 spares each of fronts and rears on hand. I also sent an email to RPM, nudging them about the possibility of making 801Xt parts. RPM arms are the only ones I've never broken. In some instances they're not stiff enough, but it's a trade off I'm almost always willing to accept for durability.

 

[Nitro Nerd]

Got it. I'm not familiar with any of the vehicles you compared against, but I do know the MBX6R, 8ight 2.0, D8T, Hyper 7, 810, or Savage X 4.6 have yet to break an a-arm (let alone consistently break one)...and they have all jumped--a lot. The 810 did bend an arm once, but it was an RPM arm and not the result of a jump. The Savage has cracked an arm (among a myriad of other things I'm working through).

So if you say the arms breaking is no more of an issue than any other kit - we should not have a problem with them. On the flip-side, I have heard/read they are a problem and assume those stating this are comparing it against what they have or had (which is why people are now putting on TAM013/014 parts). Or, do you think all the people stating this are incorrect?
http://www.ultimaterc.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1920716

Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand your stance on why you feel they are not a problem (and saying no more than any other kit indicates they are not a problem) yet many other people are saying it.

For better or worse, I do admit I have an incredibly high bar when it comes to durability. When something breaks, it's not always the part. It can be the design as I assume you know. My neighbor (who's on this forum) will tell you there are times we go out and I HOPE I break a part (he never understands that) but this is typically after a rebuild or new build. The reason is I want to understand points of failure relatively quickly. Freak accidents are just that - nothing you can do but hope they don't happen. But weak parts/design are something to be addressed immediately, at least in my opinion.

When I break something I like to treat it like a 'crime scene' in that it's important to understand WHY something is breaking. So yeah, we drive at an unforgiving track, and we jump high, and we crash hard, etc., just like everyone else. However, the expectation (unless it's a shakedown) is that the vehicle stays in tact and I rarely think "well - we just ran it hard and that's why it broke". I hope that makes sense.

Also, regarding 'height' of jumps..I'll try to get a pic the next time we are out and you can use that digital ruler to tell me what it is. I'm about 6'0 and when I marshal it appears vehicles going at least 1.5x higher than me...but who knows (now I'm curious). Here is a pic of doing warm-up jumps (again just testing out durability). I once cleared that back-board with my 810 (it's about 12 feet high I imagine). Tried it with a truggy and result was not good---but nothing broke. ;-) But we typically will jump much higher and further than this.

Anyway, we'll find out this weekend. I'm fully expecting something to break, and that's fine. I'll just address it. I like challenges such as this...Had I known the arms were an issue before getting this, I STILL would have bought it without thinking. One of the best deals ever!

Sorry to jack your thread Smitty. Wait, no I'm not. ;-)

[URL=http://s1368.photobucket.com/user/mylittlepony/media/jump_zps2ad4e47e.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag196/mylittlepony/jump_zps2ad4e47e.jpg[/URL][/IMG]

 

[Sixtysixdeuce]

I once cleared that back-board with my 810 (it's about 12 feet high I imagine). Tried it with a truggy and result was not good---but nothing broke. ;-) But we typically will jump much higher and further than this.

Well, a standard basket rim is placed at 10', so yeah, the backboard would be about 12', give or take a few inches. Jumping that high is straight-up bashing; I have never seen a track that will put cars more than 10' off the ground. Forget the arms; landing an 8-10 pound kit from 12', 15' or more on a hard, flat surface is tough on everything, even if you land it right. You're talking enough inertia to bend an electric motor mount (or rip out the screws) . You can't beat physics. We don't know how long your kits are airborne to find an exact number right now, but I'd guess your time from beginning of decent to impact from 12' would be about 2/3-3/4 second. Since the rate of acceleration for a falling object is 32 ft/sec per second, I'd expect the impact of falling from that height generates at least 20-25 ft/sec, producing around 100 joules of kinetic energy.

I would say that having not broken anything on your other kits yet is pure luck

 

[Nitro Nerd]

Hmmm...okay, I must obviously be the slow one in the room as I'm not following. Other vehicles jumping higher, further, same 'unforgiving surface' not breaking a-arms is 'pure luck'.

However with this truggy, many people are having problems breaking their a-arms on shorter jumps (and claiming it's a known weak-point of the vehicle), but you are saying the a-arms are not a problem compared to 'any other kit'...is this correct?

Don't know about joules of kinetic energy and all of that, but I do know if one vehicle's part keeps breaking, and another vehicle's does not...that is an issue with the kit and has little--if anything--to do with luck. Just my opinion. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

And for clarification, we are talking about a-arms...not other areas of the vehicles. I'm beginning to believe these arms are an issue with this truggy (I have no reason to doubt all the people claiming it). I do hope like hell ours stay in tact...as we will be riding it hard, just like we do all our vehicles. But - if it's a problem, I'll call it like a I see it (I have no reason to take up or make excuses for the vehicle simply because I own one), fix it so it hopefully does not happen again, and move on. :thumbup:

So Smitty, obviously take whatever advice you will - but it might not hurt if you are breaking a part multiple times to see if it's happening to other people, and if it is, what they have done to solve the problem.

 

[Sixtysixdeuce]

Other vehicles jumping higher, further, same 'unforgiving surface' not breaking a-arms is 'pure luck'.

For one, since you haven't even run this yet, you cannot compare it to your other vehicles. Having said that, yes, lofting rc cars 1-2 stories high and landing them on concrete repeatedly without breaking them is definitely lucky.

but you are saying the a-arms are not a problem compared to 'any other kit'...is this correct?

As of this time, these truggies have proved more durable than any of my 1/10 kits and comparable to my other 1/8, an OFNA buggy and a Losi MT. That might change, but so far the same hits & hard landings that have broken arms and knuckles/carriers on my other cars have not damaged the 801s. This has been MY experince, so YMMV. Remember, you solicited my opinion when you asked "So my question is do you agree or disagree that the arms breaking are an issue with this kit?".

Once again, I'm saying I believe they are comparable based on my experience. I certainly have not played with every kit out there, nor have I lab tested arms from all the truggies on the market for flex, torsion and impact failures. Stop trying to paint me into a corner on these things; I'm not offering any guarantees, and if you do break an arm, saying "I told you so" won't change the fact that I haven't broken mine. I didn't design or produce the kit, and I have no stake in whether or not they measure up to your standards.

Don't know about joules of kinetic energy and all of that,

Well, without understanding the mechanics of impacts and physical properties of the parts, I don't think you can quantify stating that not breaking your other kits isn't luck.

If you expect a truggy to take a hit as well as a buggy, you're deluded. Heavier, longer arms, bigger wheels. All of those things are force multipliers. Take that 100 joules of impact energy and place it on the outer circumference of the wheel. Now consider the fulcrum point when that force is applied; You may have 3 times as much force acting on the arm due to it's geometry in relation to the wheel on your buggy. Now factor in the larger wheels of a truggy with the same size knuckle; might be 4 times the force or more due to leverage. As such, an impact that doesn't break something on the buggy just might on the truggy.

Simple experiment to demonstrate what I'm talking about here: Take a fence picket and clamp it in a vise with just 6" sticking out and try to snap off that piece by yanking on the top. Now take the same picket, but clamp it with 24" protruding and repeat. Same concept.

When people do break these arms, it seems to occur at the inner hinge pin. When you consider that the arms are 2" wide, but the impact will occur roughly 6" away from the inner pin, it is easy to understand the kind of force you're dealing with. Once again, leverage. That 25 ft/sec impact when you land nose-down on the wheel translates to 300 joules acting on that inner hinge pin. Now, since very few people can "visualize" joules, we'll convert it to something that you can understand: 300 joules is 221 ft.lbs., the amount of energy developed when you drop a 221 lb weight from a height of one foot (accelerating a mass with 1 pound-force; 1 pound-force is earth's gravitational pull on a mass).

Are you beginning to understand why I'm telling you that you've been lucky thus far?

 

[Nitro Nerd]

Are you beginning to understand why I'm telling you that you've been lucky thus far?

Ha ha. Not at all. Regardless of kinetic energy and flux capacitors I only know what I know. I assure you I have better things to do than fabricate something such as my nitro vehicles jumping like I have explained (consistently) and not breaking a-arms. Of course no vehicles are indestructible, but have explained my fervor regarding my attention when it pertains to durability issues. I might not be able to drive these things well, but I stop at nothing to ensure we put a quality product on the track, parking lot, construction site, wherever.

We obviously have differing opinions with respect to durability on 1/8 nitro vehicles. Without even driving it yet, I do believe the a-arms are an issue with this truggy. I am basing this due to a high percentage of people who have owned one and have shared their experiences. Tamiya themselves even recognize this fact (and offer a 'performance package' to mitigate it).

It's okay, however. As I told you a lot of kits have known issues. You (relatively speaking) can either chalk it up to whatever algorithms you like, or you can work toward solving the problem. If you don't feel it's problematic, that's fine. I respect that, and appreciate you respecting my point of view.

As I've stated, we can simply agree to disagree. You seem to have sound knowledge in this hobby, and respect having members such as yourself with whom I can dialogue. So in this instance I feel it will behoove us to dialogue instead of discuss.

I have no agenda nor am looking to prove any sort of 'point'. There are far too many people out there who are biased and struggle to be objective simply because they own a specific vehicle and/or trying to save face in some form or fashion. I cannot do that. I have and always will call it like I see it. Others can agree or disagree, makes no difference to me at all.

Cool?

 

[smittyzz]

Update for you guys.

9.5 right now has the sh .28 p3 that I got, and wow that thing screams!!! Its a way overkill for it IMO, taking off at full throttle on pavement with my aggressive tires I've had on my ofna for months now, it burns rubber until it catches traction, and half the time the rear end kicks out on pavement. On any type of snow I've lost complete traction as this thing just spins those tires like nothing!
I can really drift her right now Lol
I even had to use a washers just to get it to fit inside my biggie. Its huge
I also had the front end lift off the ground the one time it had traction on frozen lumps of mud.
Here is a picture, and this will be going in my 801 soon!

801.
The 801 is still waiting on its two new sets of a arms in the main, sadly scheduled for next Thursday, but here is what I worked on and finished for her last night, this will be paired with the sh .28.
I think it looks sexy

---------- Post added at 10:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:27 AM ----------

And about the two rigs I got. The on roads tires weren't glued or anything, it was missing a uni in front but I made it 3wd Lol
And the spur gear got eaten up due to the junk screws and junk engine mounts. So I'm going to have to come up with my own home made tranny if I want to keep that thing going.
And for the aftershock, that thing looked rough at first but no issues at all, its actually decent and it doesn't need a whole lot besides servos only like 20-30 to get her going.

and as for both engines. They both run perfect with no issues at all. I am still happy even though I don't have a working on road.
I also got a total of 3 tuned pipes as well

 

[Nitro Nerd]

Good deal. What pipes did you get an which engines are you putting them in?

 

[Cornholio]

I think it looks sexy

Looks good smitty!! But for god's sake...PLEASE..PLEASE..PLEASE! The word "sexy" is used to describe a woman, NOT an RC vehicle..:

 

[smittyzz]

I'm pretty sure I lost one of my waterproof servos today, @and my battery decided to somehow touch and get mad hot so I threw it out back. I'm gonna be upset if I lost the servo

 

[SchrodeMode]

How do you lose a servo?

 

[smittyzz]

By lost I mean I'm pretty sure that water got in it and killed it.

 

[SchrodeMode]

By lost I mean I'm pretty sure that water got in it and killed it.

Oh, was it one of those cheap ones? I know you were asking for suggestions and then were also talking about some cheap ones that no one had heard about.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

 

[smittyzz]

Nope a traxxas 2075 actually

 

[smittyzz]

Looks good smitty!! But for god's sake...PLEASE..PLEASE..PLEASE! The word "sexy" is used to describe a woman, NOT an RC vehicle..:

Lol I'll keep that in mind haha


On another note. I got the sh.28p3 imn my 801, I had to use a total of 8 washers and 4 nuts to give it enough clearance to fit.

I also got those spring rc servos. There good so far. Faster then my traxxas ones and first thing I did was dunk one in water and test it.

Waiting on a arms that will be here today to test my new pipe and engine setup on my 801
And I had to take a look at my brakes on my ofna. Those brake pads were worn hard and falling apart in the front so I removed them, brakes need minor adjusting then they'll be perfect again.
I don't like brake pads as they don't last once getting wet. I plan to run all winter every winter.

And for the redline speed elite. I actually found the owners website and found a slew of parts for it, and its not a redline. Or there's been a name rebranding Lol


But everything is about to slow down for me, I took a second job on so I'll be working 9pm to 1am four days a week then 4am to noon 5-7 days a week.
And on top of that I found an apartment, and I'll know beginning of march if we get it. Its time to get out of my parents.
So if I get it I'm going to be tight on money until we are settled

 

[Sixtysixdeuce]

But everything is about to slow down for me, I took a second job on so I'll be working 9pm to 1am four days a week then 4am to noon 5-7 days a week.

I did the two full time jobs thing when I was your age, and you can handle it for a time. Just remember to focus on your primary, and if performance starts to slip due to exhaustion, drop the ancillary. I was working 8a-6p as a mechanic and 10p-6a as a night stocker at a department store. After a few months, I started missing things/making mistakes on cars.

 

[smittyzz]

Blew a connecting rod

 

[Nitro Nerd]

Blew a connecting rod

Welcome to the club. It's a g-thang

[URL=http://s1368.photobucket.com/user/mylittlepony/media/Rod_zps738921d1.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag196/mylittlepony/Rod_zps738921d1.jpg[/URL][/IMG]