Hot water heater for the house?

[beason]

imbroke, it seems I'm in the same boat as mw. exept i think my tank is relativly new, it worked pretty good untill last summer when my water main burst. some dink ran wrot iron pipe underground.... i replaced it with pvc, but had alot of rust clumps get into my water pipes, that is when it started. my shower runs about the same as mw's with the having to turn the hot up and cold down. i dont know if it is clogged up, or if the added water pressure changed the run time. its a 40 gal tank, electric, but thats all i know. I've tryed to flush it by connecting a hose to the valve at the base but that didnt do any good. any ideas? please help. cold showers suck. and this think is only like 2 years old. its a craftsmaster or something

I'm on a well if that matters. and I'm pretty good with tools if you think i can do it myself.. thanks

 

[SVORay]

It's kind of a mess with HWH's these days if you ask me. They don't make them well enough to support some peoples needs anymore. That is why to sudden demand for tankless systems. It's all part of some conserve freash water like they did back with the high flow tolits. but I'm not going tankless. Thats just me though. Anyways, You really need to figure out your needs before choosing a new water heater. This will help with picking a tank with the best recovery rate for your needs.


The amount of hotwater your family needs depends on the number of people living there, their bathing, and, washing habbits, and the number of tubs and showers availble for simultaneous use. Also a hot tub would greatly effect this if you got one. Do not judge whether a hwh is adequate by the capacity of the tank alone. Equaly as important is its recovery rate-the volmue of water that will have its temp raised by 100F in one hour. a typical hwh for a res is 30 and 82 gallons.

A small example...a 60 gallon electric tank w/10 gallon recovery rate would run out of water in like 30 mins. Now if you need about 60 min of hot water, this wouldn't do. On the other hand, if the home had been equiped with an oil field water heater that had a capacity of only 30 gallons and a 120 gallon recovery rate, the hot water would never run out.


I'm not sure but I think a gas will have the recovery rate on it but an electric want. But each 250 watts heats about 1 gallon of water 100F in one hour. Thus a water heater rated at 4500 watts has a recovery rate of only 18gallons per hour. This is a typical redcovery rate on an electric.

A decent recovery rate example would be on either gas or electric is: on a house with one full bath , the sum of the capacity plus the recovery rate should total about 70. For two full baths it should be around 90 and three baths etc should be atleast 115.

Best of luck
Ray

 

[jammin]

I've been in school for natural gas tech and installation for about a year know and we go through all gas appliances and natural is way more efficient then an electric water heater. It will take a more expensive electric wh alot longer and more energy then it would to heat a tank with natural gas. My opinion here but most manufatures will not warantee there tanks more then 10 to 15 years because they are only made to last that long. Your tank will eventually corrode.

I would look into the high effecancy water heters that are sealed combustion which basically means no pilot they are automatic direct ignition. That would be the best bang for your buck. Size of heater depends on use. hope that clears a thing or two up.

 

[ImBroken]

Under the 3/4" copper x female adaptor pictured above, there should be a plastic dip tube, that flared out at the end, sitting in the nipple coming out of the tank.
You can pull it out and inspect it. It should extend within 4" of the bottom of the tank. If it is deteriorated, you can actually make one from 1/2" L copper. You will need to flare out one end, so that it will not drop through the nipple. Cut it to length, and reinstall the copper adaptor with a coupling...
A tell tale sign that your dip tube is gone, would be finding white plastic type debris in the sink aerators around your house.

Just found an article, while searching for some pics...
http://www.thehomeinspector.com/Clients/DipTube.html

 

[beason]

i think mine is cloged up. whats the best way to flush one??

 

[ImBroken]

i think mine is cloged up. whats the best way to flush one??

The only way is to close the incoming COLD water valve, drain it down completely, then open the COLD water valve with the drain still open. Let it run for a good 10-15 minutes..

 

[beason]

ok ill try that is there a way to connect a hose to the "outlet" and backflush it?? or will that do bad things?

 

[Monkey Wrench]

Alright, well, it clearly is the cold water dip tube and I think it's getting worse by the day! This morning the shower had basically zero pressure, so I unscrewed the head and the aerator is packed with the white plastic stuff Imbroken mentioned earlier. I went ahead and ordered a Kenmore 65 gallon HWT and I'm going to try replacing it myself. Sears wanted $200.00 to install it plus the charge for pulling the permit and the plumber I prefer to use can't get to it for three weeks (at least he was honest). I've done some research on installing a natural gas HWT and it looks pretty straight forward, but nothing is ever straight forward for me! I'm just hoping I don't blow myself and the house up!

Anyhow, the unit was only $439.00 and has a very quick recovery, so I'm looking forward to a nice hot shower again...soon!

Anyone have any tips? The gas line is the black iron piping and the hood and vent are all 4", which is required per the Kenmore web site. I've got my torch, flux and solder along with pipe cleaner, etc. so I figure I'm ready. Just need to get some pipe compund for the gas line.

So, if you don't hear from me after Thursday, chances are folks are picking bits of me out of a tree!

 

[HeartBreak]

...So, if you don't hear from me after Thursday, chances are folks are picking bits of me out of a tree!

Oh, we'll hear from ya.... in the news . It should go fairly straight forward, as long as you turn the main off completely.

 

[ImBroken]

Alright, well, it clearly is the cold water dip tube and I think it's getting worse by the day! This morning the shower had basically zero pressure, so I unscrewed the head and the aerator is packed with the white plastic stuff Imbroken mentioned earlier. I went ahead and ordered a Kenmore 65 gallon HWT and I'm going to try replacing it myself. Sears wanted $200.00 to install it plus the charge for pulling the permit and the plumber I prefer to use can't get to it for three weeks (at least he was honest). I've done some research on installing a natural gas HWT and it looks pretty straight forward, but nothing is ever straight forward for me! I'm just hoping I don't blow myself and the house up!

Anyhow, the unit was only $439.00 and has a very quick recovery, so I'm looking forward to a nice hot shower again...soon!

Anyone have any tips? The gas line is the black iron piping and the hood and vent are all 4", which is required per the Kenmore web site. I've got my torch, flux and solder along with pipe cleaner, etc. so I figure I'm ready. Just need to get some pipe compund for the gas line.

So, if you don't hear from me after Thursday, chances are folks are picking bits of me out of a tree!

If you dont have a dedicated shut-off valve on the cold water line going into the HWH, install one. Stay away from screw type gate valves. You only want Ball Valves in your house. The most important thing when sweating copper, is to really clean your joints with steel wool & flux. Your "Lead Free" solder will follow the flux, so wipe your joint after heating it to get the excess off, and you will get a nice clean joint. If there is any water still coming from the pipes, you will not be able to sweat the joint. If your main valve is shut, house drained down, and you still get water dripping past, bread works great to stop a leak temporarily while sweating.. It will break down eventually under pressure and come out of a faucet..
Solder up your stand pipes before screwing them on the heater, to prevent overheating the doped fitting.
As far as the gas piping, just duplicate what was on the old heater. Remember to turn your gas valve off gently... The flat you put the wrench on likes to snap off if valve is frozen, or turned the wrong way. Those valves can also be replaced with Ball Valves, as long as "WOG" (Water,Oil,Gas) is stamped on the side of the valve.
If you have any other questions, I PM'ed ya my cell number..
Good luck..

 

[HeartBreak]

...bread works great to stop a leak temporarily while sweating.. It will break down eventually under pressure and come out of a faucet....

Man, I wish I knew this one about six months ago (when I plumbed in a shower), and last week when I re-plumbed the kitchen sink. I was using an air compressor to shoot the water back. Probably not the best in the world. Not to mention, I got a little blast in the face for my effort.

 

[Monkey Wrench]

Well, I got that darn thing in and it's working! Man, what a task! One trip to Sears to get the tank, five trips to Lowes to get the right parts!

I truly have a whole new appreciation for the individuals that do this for a living! I was cussing so hard I was making up new ones!

A big THANK YOU to Imbroken for the assistance! I had your digits dialed in, brother, but it came together pretty good!

 

[ImBroken]

Well, I got that darn thing in and it's working! Man, what a task! One trip to Sears to get the tank, five trips to Lowes to get the right parts!

I truly have a whole new appreciation for the individuals that do this for a living! I was cussing so hard I was making up new ones!

A big THANK YOU to Imbroken for the assistance! I had your digits dialed in, brother, but it came together pretty good!

Glad I could be of help bro... Just one of the great advantages of being part of a close knit forum.. You'll always find someone that has the info your looking for...