Expert Advise

[mnm]

I'm looking into purchasing another on road sedan by this Christmas and was wondering what is the "best" nitro powered racer out there that I can get? Id prefer a kit version... also at the same time, whets the "best" buggy out there. Price does not matter for both. I would want a sedan and buggy that I would be able to race in events etc etc. Nothing for bashing as I already have plenty of those. I would also like it if people giving the feed back and or help actually have that sedan or buggy, to give me a more detailed description on what’s good and bad about that certain sedan/buggy and what I should expect from it.


Sorry for asking a lot of Questions, and I really appreciate the help in advance. I have a couple of sedans and buggies picked out in mind, just want to see if what I picked where good or bad for racing compared to the experts in here.

Thanks
mnm

 

[Plaidfish]

I'll throw in for the XB8 on the buggy, I had a serpent 705 but it's been replaced by the 710.....the 705 was ballistic and I only had a crappy OS .15 in it...I can't imagine what guys like Diver and his brother run......they have to be sick fast....but as far as the buggy goes, I've had an MBX-5, OFNA 9.5 pro, K2, and a Hyper 7 breifly......I never tried another buggy after gettting the XB8......top notch all the way....the only upgrades I made to it where the front chassis brace and I have the one peice motor mount but haven't mounted it yet (lazy mon).....for on road though if you aren't familiar w/ TC racing I'd say stick w/ the TC3...super reliable car and takes one hell of a beating for a road car....

 

[2mcgrath]

the mugen or serpent are both good choices..also the factory team ntc3 is a great car

 

[Diver6127]

Well there are the shaft driven cars:

• Nitro TC3
• Kyosho FW05R

and the belt driven cars:

• Mugen MTX-3 and MTX-4
• Kyosho VoneRRR
• HPI R40

These are in no particular order. All are comprable in build, quality and performance.

I have owned a Nitro TC3. It was my first racer and raced pretty competatively for a season with it. It taught me a lot and grew with me in respects to learning the general dynamics of setup, throttle control and parts were readily available every where.

The Kyosho FW05R is owned by a friend of mine and is also a very good shaft driven car. The Design is only different from the NTC3 with the engine/pipe being on the right side. Good performer and excellent racer.

I currently own the Serpent 710. It's an excellent car. Very adjustable but be forewarned. It is a "tuners car." Meaning, don't expect to get optimum performance straight out of the box. It took me the better part of a full racing season to get it the way I like it. It will take extensive tinkering to get all the settings dialed in correctly. What is good with this car is that it is customizeable to every driving style. Only bad thing is that what is good for you will not work for another person. The base line will be there from one person's setup (ie Michael Salven) but it must be coerced a little bit to fit you 100%.

I have the MTX-4. I can't really give a full write up of the car because it still has to be raced but a write up of the build is on the way ... with pictures. Not a hard build. Sl0eg1n and I had them completed to a "roller" status in about 7-8 hrs of total build time. I did mine in a little over 8 (3 hrs the previous night and 5+ the next evening because of work). If you have a free day on the weekend, it can be done in a bout the length of watching "Titanic," "Meet the Fockers," "Jack," and an episode of "Entourage." Sorry, I just sit infront of the bigscreen and start wrenching. These were the programs that were airing while I was building.

The HPI R40 is also a very good car. Definitely the cheaper of the belt cars (price wise) and still a good comeptitor. The VoneRRR is another excellent car. I can't give a complete description of it since I don't own/race one of these. Ratzo has the WCE version of the tripple R so he can definitely give a better insight.

BTW, sl0e1n and I do have the same cars, just as Plaidfish stated. We race the same cars since we attend races together. It saves on parts and allows us to keep a general parts bin. Setup and engines are basically where we differ but both of us are always nipping at each other's tail. Nose to tail a lot of the times.

Some may say the serpents are more prone to breaking but honestly, I see no difference at the track. Everyone breaks the same when driving these cars at full speed. One is not more "bullet proof" than the other. It's the driver that will decide the "breaking factor." On a side note, mugen parts were always cheaper than the serpent. After putting the mugen together, both sl0eg1n and I noticed the same thing ... parts.

The plastic parts were not of the upper caliber of the serpent. Even the CF lamination was a bit low. The build was easier than the 710 but both are still good competitors. Classic "european" vs "Japanese import." Quality vs quantity ... it shows in the parts and design.

 

[mnm]

Thanks for the Great write up. I was looking more into the mugen MTX4 and the Kyosho VoneRRR I have a Friend that owns a VoneRRR and I like it, but was wondering if there are any new models coming out for those two cars that anyone is aware of? Also is there any other Kyosho sedan model belt driven that I should look into other than the VoneRRR on Kyosho' side?

Also what’s the difference between the MTX4-3? Is the MTX4 just a newer version? I'm really considering getting a MTX4, but holding my self back to it, I need to get more info about it before getting it. Search serach search

 

[Bouzouki]

The MTX-4 is a completly new car from the 3, it's not like the MTX-3 > MTX-3 Prospec which is just a 3 with hop-ups.

The MTX-3 is probably more comparable with the 710 and R40.

You will get many different answers on these cars,

I personally think Mugen is the best, quality is great, parts are easy to find, I dont find parts expensive, and performance is 100% there.

This is only my opinion on what I have experianced with the MTX-3 and MRX-4.

I have absolutly no doubts the MTX-4 lives up to my past Mugen experiances.

For racing, belt driven cars are preffered over shaft driven.

If you are not an experianced driver as far as racing on a track goes, you probably wouldn't notice much of a difference because you couldn't take advantage of these cars potential.

Between the MTX-4 and RRR WCE, it should be very close.

 

[sl0eg1n]

after building the MTX-4, i think the quality is much lesser than the serpent. the chassis is not very rigid and will need to be upgraded to a beefier one. the plastic very soft. one thing that peeves me is that 1mm offset tires need to be used. the majority of foam tires available are 0 offest.

the performance is yet to be known. one thing for sure, it will not out handle my xray t1fk05 on the same track layout. the mtx-4 will only be used during races i know it won't get hacked to hell.

 

[Bouzouki]

On the MTX-3, it used 2mm offset tires.

At the same time, you could run 0mm offset tires with no problems (In fact, most people stopped using 2mm)

All you had to do was adjust your wheelbase.

FAST will most likily have 1mm offset tires if you don't feel like adjusting the track width, KAW will also most likily.

EDIT: Soft plastic will flex instead of breaking. I remember a thread a while back on people boiling their plastic parts to soften them for this very reason.

As far as the chasis goes, it's a 3mm I believe, if it's not enough for you, Mugen or somebody else will most likily release a 4mm version.

I ran the 3mm chassis for a while, it held up fine.

 

[sl0eg1n]

the clearance from the hub carrier is way too close when using 0 offset tires. the clearance is a little less than 1mm. if you can get 1mm offset hexes, it will bandaid the issue. 3 racing has 1+mm offset for the serpent. if i can fit sepent hexes on the mugen i am going to get these for MTX-4

i checked it last night with ellegi's.

 

[710baby]

the clearance from the hub carrier is way too close when using 0 offset tires. the clearance is a little less than 1mm. if you can get 1mm offset hexes, it will bandaid the issue. 3 racing has 1+mm offset for the serpent. if i can fit sepent hexes on the mugen i am going to get these for MTX-4

i checked it last night with ellegi's.

you sell out & went to Mugen LOL
getting back to the topic
Xray choice for a buggy
1/10th Kyosho or Mugen
If you decide to go to kyosho I have an extra complete kit for sale it's the world class edition team kit

 

[sl0eg1n]

MnM, you need to specify what kind of car you are looking for. i can tell you on the cars that i have built and raced for nitro TC.

Serpent 710: quality of parts is great. price is about $380 parts availability is dependent on you vicinity. the only issue is setup. you need to customize the setup according to your driving style and track. the car has a slight push and the roll-center points need to be found correctly. if you are not willing to work on setups, this car is not for you. i ran this car for 2 seasons and had no problems with it.

Mugen MTX-4: i haven't raced it yet on the track but the quality of parts and build was a bit disappointing in regards to the price paid. US kits will be above $410 because this is the price hobby shops are purchasing it from the distributor. chassis isn't very rigid (i can flex the chassis with my own strength). aftermarket alluminum braces are needed to be purchased. if you have a high torque motor, such as the hot mod N12LL3, the chassis will tweak a bit under power. i can only give feed back on the build since i haven't raced the car yet since it's electric season. i expect it to be out of box setup

mtx-3 prospec: setup is fast out the box. has all the options needed to make the original mtx-3 better. you may be able to get a used one from a racer. never built one, just test drove a friends

NTC3 : good starter car but for the price of the factory team version you are better off buying a serpent, mugen or RRR. has an inheritent push and torque steer. i had problems acheiving aggressive lines. this car is not for one that like to take turns like F1 racers. this car is good for the beginner racer, but you may grow out of the car too fast.

i actively competitively race/will race the following cars: serpent 710, mugen MTX-4, Xray T1FK05, CRC Carpet Knife 3.2R. the car that i have the most success with placing in top 3 during races and laptimes, isn't even nitro. it's the xray T1FK05. all you have to do is ask Remy. on the same track layout and day we were both racing at, i posted laptimes that most nitro cars were having trouble acheiving.

 

[mnm]

I'm actually leaning towards the Mugen MTX-4 and serpent 710 more than the Kyosho V-oneRRR, after reading your Great reviews, and info from other sites! but i most probably will go with the Mugen MTX-4.

 

[Diver6127]

Well, as you can see ... sl0eg1n and I run the same cars with the exception of the CRC products. He runs the carpet knife, I run the T-fource. Ok, back on topic ...

I have completed my own MTX-4 and I am very disappointed in it (build wise). Granted, some flex is needed with outdoor racing but this is rediculous. 3mm may be fine for most but not for the avid racer. I am seriously hoping that a 4 mm, low CG chassis will be available. Some other misses ...

• Poor parts quality ... plastic needs to flex but when lowgrade material is used on braces, that's bad
• Servo horns aren't available with the kit. This is fine if you have others on hand but the ones that come with the servos are quite inadequate to handle the torsional demands
• Chassis is very pliable ... even when fully built, the flex is not up to par.
• Carbon fiber is not consistant. Some waves in the weave were found in my kit
• Belt tensioners are VERY hard to set correctly because the notch is barely visible in the front and when doing the rear, you just hope you get it right the first time.
• Rear camber ... tyical mygen design but a pain when making slight adjustments on the track. A simple turn cannot be made without taking off the cover since it's not a pillowball setup for camber

The list goes on but I will hold back till I can get pics up.

As sl0eg1n said, the NTC3 is an excellent choice for the beginner but you may outgrow it fairly fast. Sl0eg1n and I did that in our rookie year of racing.

I am partial to the 710 but that's only because the parts are of excellent quality and it is my current primary racer. I spent a large portion of nonracing days at the track trying to get it "just right" for me. As I have always said, the 710 is a "tuner's car" not a performer out of the box.

you sell out & went to Mugen LOL

Shut up! you know you want one too! LOL

FAST will most likily have 1mm offset tires if you don't feel like adjusting the track width, KAW will also most likily.

even adjusting track width, the rear uprights move along with the track width.

EDIT: Soft plastic will flex instead of breaking. I remember a thread a while back on people boiling their plastic parts to soften them for this very reason.

This is true but chassis braces should not be this soft. For arms, yes but I prefer carbon since the settings will hold better.

As far as the chasis goes, it's a 3mm I believe, if it's not enough for you, Mugen or somebody else will most likily release a 4mm version.

I ran the 3mm chassis for a while, it held up fine.

Rigidity for an onroad is key so that the chassis roll will be consistant. A chassis that gives will give varying performance, no constant denominator will be present.

 

[710baby]

Well, as you can see ... sl0eg1n and I run the same cars with the exception of the CRC products. He runs the carpet knife, I run the T-fource. Ok, back on topic ...

I have completed my own MTX-4 and I am very disappointed in it (build wise). Granted, some flex is needed with outdoor racing but this is rediculous. 3mm may be fine for most but not for the avid racer. I am seriously hoping that a 4 mm, low CG chassis will be available. Some other misses ...

• Poor parts quality ... plastic needs to flex but when lowgrade material is used on braces, that's bad
• Servo horns aren't available with the kit. This is fine if you have others on hand but the ones that come with the servos are quite inadequate to handle the torsional demands
• Chassis is very pliable ... even when fully built, the flex is not up to par.
• Carbon fiber is not consistant. Some waves in the weave were found in my kit
• Belt tensioners are VERY hard to set correctly because the notch is barely visible in the front and when doing the rear, you just hope you get it right the first time.
• Rear camber ... tyical mygen design but a pain when making slight adjustments on the track. A simple turn cannot be made without taking off the cover since it's not a pillowball setup for camber

The list goes on but I will hold back till I can get pics up.

As sl0eg1n said, the NTC3 is an excellent choice for the beginner but you may outgrow it fairly fast. Sl0eg1n and I did that in our rookie year of racing.

I am partial to the 710 but that's only because the parts are of excellent quality and it is my current primary racer. I spent a large portion of nonracing days at the track trying to get it "just right" for me. As I have always said, the 710 is a "tuner's car" not a performer out of the box.


Shut up! you know you want one too! LOL


even adjusting track width, the rear uprights move along with the track width.

This is true but chassis braces should not be this soft. For arms, yes but I prefer carbon since the settings will hold better.

Rigidity for an onroad is key so that the chassis roll will be consistant. A chassis that gives will give varying performance, no constant denominator will be present.

Fyi Diver
I always like to run something different then the usual choice remember everyone has a mugen I went with the 710 & then to kyosho & no regrets the car is like night & day. regarding the mtx4 after seing all the details before they released it to me it looked like a copy of the 710 in some areas. regarding the flex in the chasis you know there will be a more solid version like mtx4 prospec. just think of it that's rc for you
good luck with it

 

[Diver6127]

Fyi Diver
I always like to run something different then the usual choice remember everyone has a mugen I went with the 710 & then to kyosho & no regrets the car is like night & day. regarding the mtx4 after seing all the details before they released it to me it looked like a copy of the 710 in some areas. regarding the flex in the chasis you know there will be a more solid version like mtx4 prospec. just think of it that's rc for you
good luck with it

To tell you the truth, the more I look at this mugen, it looks more and more like the 710 minus the DRS, rear camber pillowball and ball diff.

I know what you mean about being "different." That's always a plus but the reason I went with the 710 was not just because I always wanted a serpent (almost got the 705) but you and Mike Mal convinced me and sl0eg1n to get one while we were racing at prospeed with you.

This MTX-4 is no serpent, and vice versa. Each has it's "hits and misses" but I will give the mugen a chance. Gotta learn the car, right?nJust makes me laugh when sl0eg1n told me this evening that he might have just wasted money on this purchase. Vito said the same thing. We showed it to him last night at the store. Overall design is nice, parts quality is mediocre and is over priced ... all he could say was, "F-ing mugen, never surprises me." Typical vito remark. LOL

 

[710baby]

Tell Vito I said what's up
learning will be easy & with alot of guys that will be racing that car will give you a lot of tips aka Jaime,Mikey mike.
I surely will miss racing @ region 1 events it's different outhere no one is courteous & it seems no one will help out on there own unless asked like the racers out here are out for themselves so i will be fighting some battles but when I take the top spot let's see who gonna kiss up lol

 

[sl0eg1n]

feel free to give us any tips or products that think will be useful. for some reason, anything that diver and i have purchased from you is extremely fast. if you have any batteries, electric motors, engines,etc that you have lying around feel free to let us know.

at the current moment, i need some fast batteries for my carpet knife. i am also researching for an outlaw motor to put into the mugen, such as the hot mod ns12ls5.

 

[Diver6127]

Hell, that massimo mod is still kicking ass! Got anything else to sell? LOL. You know that if we were down there, things would probably be different ... basically, back to prospeed and FBF days style driving.

BTW, Jamie picked up his MTX-4 today after drooling over mine at the store for about 30 mins. I think he ruined his boxers.

 

[mnm]

Out of curiosity when was the serpent 710 released?

 

[Diver6127]

First shipments wer sent out to LHS's on December 9, 2003.