D3MON
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especially in regards to HSP/Exceed/Redcat older models... thanks for the laugh...
So I got some "48 pitch" pinions for my rc. The pitch of the spur gear is also 48. So why don't the gears mesh together? Money wasted.
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Unless I'm very mistaken about what I know about gearing, and I dont think I am, 48P and 48DP are the same thing. Pitches are measured in one of 3 ways.
DP = Diametral Pitch (Which just gets shorted to pitch or a capital P because capital P is the mathmatical variable for DP. This is also an imperial measurement system)
CP = Circular pitch (which is a lowercase p as opposed to an capital P. This is the distance in inches or millimeters from one tooth to the next tooth when measured along the gears pitch circle. No one in the RC world uses this measurement when referring to gear pitch)
Mod = Module in millimeters (which is the metric measurement system for gears).
Not sure where you got this idea that they are different.
Exceeds as far as I'm aware uses mod .6. That is to say I did a brief google dive on it and I've seen a few different statements on the internet saying that they use mod .6. Dont quote me on that but you can quote me on the first paragraph.
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ChadCharlieG
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Nice, perfect timing. One of the teeth on the pinion gear broke halfway off.
mod .6 is very close to 48p so it makes sense that they would be mod.6
ChadCharlieG
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Ohh.
the size difference is less than 1/100 of an inch so yeah real close
ChadCharlieG
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That is really close. I could still barely notice the difference. Now I know what to get.
I hope it works out for ya. I never had an exceed so i dont have first hand experience but I was able to pull up a couple different places from a google search where others were saying it was mod.6
ChadCharlieG
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I like Exceed. I really do. They are better than HSP and better than the Redcat rebrands in the sense that they NEVER break. But parts are so hard and confusing, and exceed went out of business a bit ago. So I may be shelfing Old Reliable soon.
Exceed went out of business? When?
48DP and 48P are not the same. P is the American way of measuring gears, in fractions of an inch, whereas DP is the imperial method of measuring gears, in fractions of a millimeter. While some P and DP gears will mesh with no issue, not all of them will. As for Mod .06, they wont mesh with P or DP gears. Diametral is a term used for any straight cut gears, and refers to the amount of teeth per inch diameter. Look through Grob Inc.'s site enough, and you will learn more than you ever wanted to know about gearing: https://www.grobinc.com/blog/spur-g...: The thickness of,per inch of pitch diameter. or just work in a shop that specializes in making gears (i did for over 10 years, and, just an FYI, it can be a very dirty job).
Americans use the imperial system so I'm not sure I understand your statement that P is American and DP is imperial. Imperial is American. P (capital P) = DP which is in inches. p (lowercase p) = circular pitch which can be measured in inches or mm but will correspond to the DP. Example... a 48P gear has a diametral pitch of 48 which means it also has a circular pitch of .0654 inches or 1.661 mm and if you convert 48P to module in millimeters it would be approx Mod .5288. Circular pitch is just the measurement (in inches or mm) from one tooth to the next tooth. Diametral Pitch is how many teeth are on a gear per inch of the circles diameter. So you see when people say 48p they dont really mean 48p they mean 48P which is the same thing as 48DP. Most people arent overly familiar with gears so DP just gets shorted to P (which is the correct because P is the mathematical variable for DP) or p because they dont understand the difference between P and p. Heres a perfect example of what I'm talking about in the first two pics below. As far as I know there are only 3 ways to measure pitch which are the 3 I named above.
You say "DP is the imperial method of measuring gears, in fractions of a millimeter."
This is wrong. DP is in inches. Saying that imperial measurements are measured in mm is a contradictory statement. If its measure in mm then its metric not imperial. Unless Webster Dictionary (and a whole bunch of other websites) got it wrong? After working in a specialized shop that makes gears for 10 years, how do you not know this?
I never said that mod .6 would mesh with anything other than mod.6. All I said was that I saw more than one person online stating that they used mod.6 in their exceed kits. I believe this to be accurate and also explains the OPs original problem. The circular pitch of 48p and mod .6 is less than 1/100th of an inch so it would at first glace seem to be the same but in reality you will not get a 100% accurate mesh between the two.
The page you posted says nothing that supports your statement. In fact is actually supports everything that I've just said so if I missed something on that page then feel free to site the exact reference. So far Youve done nothing to show me where I'm wrong which only bolsters my confidence in what I said being correct in the first place. If I'm wrong I'm happy to admit it but so far you aint making a very convincing argument on your side of the debate.
As you can see the first two entries on this table says "Diametral Pitch = P and Circular Pitch = p)".
This video explains the differences and relationships between DP, CP, and Mod
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And this is why i should never post when i am exhausted. I just reread what i wrote, and even confused myself. However, i dont know where you read that Exceed uses Mod .06 gears. Every Exceed/Redcat/HSP i have ever owned all use DP gears, and, from actually stripping several 17T and 19T 48P gears, i finally asked one of the guys i used to work with, i learned that DP is what they use in Europe, and P is what they use in the states, and although they are close, in some cases they arent close enough for the gears to mesh properly. If Exceed is now using Mod .06 gears, that is something they started doing in the last year, since its been about a year since i bought my last Exceed RTR (at one point i had 7 Exceed Rally Monster's, and i still have 4 Mad Speed drift cars). Anymore i just buy HSP chassis kits from AliExpress and build my own cars. All the kits i have bought come with 48DP or 64DP gears, so i just started buying DP pinion sets to make it simple. If his car has Mod .06 gears, i would just get a HobbyPark spur from Amazon or eBay, and get a matching 48DP pinion set, and make it simpler to deal with.
A simple google search will take you to multiple different places in other forums where people state their exceed is using a mod.6 gear. I didnt see one reference from anyone besides yourself trying to say that they were 48DP or even 48P. Granted I didnt look very hard but I looked hard enough to find a couple of examples of people claiming they used mod .6.
As for the rest of it you still havent shown me anything to prove your theory about gear pitch or even made a fluid argument. I wouldnt go spreading that information around. As far as I'm concerned its misinformation until someone shows me something otherwise.
As for the rest of it you still havent shown me anything to prove your theory about gear pitch or even made a fluid argument. I wouldnt go spreading that information around. As far as I'm concerned its misinformation until someone shows me something otherwise.
Really? Why not search directly from HSP, or, better yet, NitroRCX, since they are the supplier in the states for Exceed RC. This is a direct quote from NitroRCX about the Exceed vehicles: CURRENT EXCEED RC BRUSHLESS CARS ARE EQUIPPED WITH 32 PITCH SPUR AND PINION GEARS. EXCEED RC BRUSHED CARS ARE EQUIPPED WITH 48 PITCH GEARS. ALL EXCEED RC CARS CAN USE EITHER 32 PITCH OR 48 PITCH. HOWEVER YOU MUST USE THE SAME PITCH FOR PINION AND SPUR. It is taken from this page: https://www.nitrorcx.com/piniongears.html That disclaimer has been on NitroRCX's page for at least the last 5 years. Then, do a search for the HobbyPark HSP 64T metal spur gear, that works on ALL HSP based 1/10TH scale cars, and is 48DP. Here is that gear: https://www.amazon.com/Hobbypark-Di...ocphy=9005776&hvtargid=pla-491560815799&psc=1 I dont know where you read they are a Mod .06, but, EVERY Exceed RC car is an HSP rebrand, and every HSP rebrand uses either 48DP or 32DP/Mod .08 gears. In all my searching the last few years, i have came across only one post, on RCU, that stated that 48DP and Mod .06 are the same, and, from personal experience, i know they arent. Would you like me to post pics of the multiple stripped 48P pinions and the metal 48DP spur that that stripped them that i have? When i first got back into RC, i got told the same thing, that 48DP and 48P are the same, only to buy a set of 48P spurs, and strip every single one of them on a Redcat Volcano and an Exceed Mad Speed. Once i started buying 48DP pinions, i have only stripped one in the last 5 years, and that was due to a bent input shaft that the spur rides on.
Ok First off you're focused on the wrong part of this conversation. While I hope the OP finds the correct gear I'm not debating with you the gear pitch of his Sunfire. My debate is whether or not you understand gearing and as far as I'm concerned you dont. you're still rambling on as if P and DP are 2 different things...They are not. I've already shown you evidence of this and yet you keep dismissing the main argument and you are convinced that you are right and not interested in producing any that substantiates your claims.
I dont care what exceed claims. You and Exceed claim that 32P and Mod .8 are the same. They are not. They are very close just like 48P and Mod .6 are very close but again not the same. If thios company thinks that 32P and Mod.8 are the same its reasonable to assume they are using Mod .8 instead of 32P. If thats true then its entirely possible that they are really using mod .6 and calling it 48P. If you look up replacement 32P gears on NitroRCX website you'll see they list 32p and Mod.8 as the same thing.
Example that you think 32DP and mod.8 are the same.
"I dont know where you read they are a Mod .06, but, EVERY Exceed RC car is an HSP rebrand, and every HSP rebrand uses either 48DP or 32DP/Mod .08 gears."
Example from NitroRCX website that shows they think 32P and Mod .8 are the same.
As for where I saw people saying their exceed kit used mod .6 thats here: Simple google search
you're quote from above post:
Want some additional references? Look at these pics.
Heres 3 different companies on ebay who are selling 48DP gears and labeling them 48DP/48P
Want more? These two pics are interesting. They show two different listings for ARRMA pinions. One is listed as 48DP and the other is listed as 48P. Isnt that odd... Does that mean some ARRMA kits are running 48DP gearing and some are running 48P? I doubt it.
I dont care what exceed claims. You and Exceed claim that 32P and Mod .8 are the same. They are not. They are very close just like 48P and Mod .6 are very close but again not the same. If thios company thinks that 32P and Mod.8 are the same its reasonable to assume they are using Mod .8 instead of 32P. If thats true then its entirely possible that they are really using mod .6 and calling it 48P. If you look up replacement 32P gears on NitroRCX website you'll see they list 32p and Mod.8 as the same thing.
Example that you think 32DP and mod.8 are the same.
"I dont know where you read they are a Mod .06, but, EVERY Exceed RC car is an HSP rebrand, and every HSP rebrand uses either 48DP or 32DP/Mod .08 gears."
Example from NitroRCX website that shows they think 32P and Mod .8 are the same.
As for where I saw people saying their exceed kit used mod .6 thats here: Simple google search
you're quote from above post:
Heres another example below that demonstrates that Capital P is the mathematical nomenclature for DP meaning they are the same thing. The only other nomenclature for pitch is lowercase "p" which we should understand by now stands for "circular pitch" which we know people arent talking about circular pitch when they type something like 48p, 48P, or 48DP. So please explain to me how P and DP can be different, preferably this time with some kind of website, pictures, etc that back up your claim. I've already explained to you more than once with many other sources that back up what I'm saying so if you're not going to debate me with anything other than your opinion stated as fact then please stop trying to convinece me, and others, that they are different.
Want some additional references? Look at these pics.
Heres 3 different companies on ebay who are selling 48DP gears and labeling them 48DP/48P
Want more? These two pics are interesting. They show two different listings for ARRMA pinions. One is listed as 48DP and the other is listed as 48P. Isnt that odd... Does that mean some ARRMA kits are running 48DP gearing and some are running 48P? I doubt it.
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You say that HSP and its clones (redcat, exceed, etc) use 48DP gearing but heres a listing for an HSP gear thats a mod .6. Yet again this is odd...
Heres a couple of replies I got back from a couple sellers on ebay asking if their gears labeled as 48DP were the same thing as 48P. One of the sellers is Amain.com and another is Horizon Hobbies. Here are their replies.
This is Amain.com's reply
Heres the reply from Horrizon Hobbies
Heres another response from ASAP Hobbies
So I have now spent waaaaaaaaaaay to much of my time providing example after example after example of 48DP and 48P as being the same thing. I have also shown a few examples that seem to indicate that exceed maybe uses mod .6 gears. Again I'm not saying they do use mod.6 I'm simply saying I can find various indicators on line that they might. You have presented nothing except you opinion as fact so please stop trying to convince people that 48DP and 48P are different... THEY ARE NOT. Unless you can prove otherwise.
Heres a couple of replies I got back from a couple sellers on ebay asking if their gears labeled as 48DP were the same thing as 48P. One of the sellers is Amain.com and another is Horizon Hobbies. Here are their replies.
This is Amain.com's reply
Heres the reply from Horrizon Hobbies
Heres another response from ASAP Hobbies
So I have now spent waaaaaaaaaaay to much of my time providing example after example after example of 48DP and 48P as being the same thing. I have also shown a few examples that seem to indicate that exceed maybe uses mod .6 gears. Again I'm not saying they do use mod.6 I'm simply saying I can find various indicators on line that they might. You have presented nothing except you opinion as fact so please stop trying to convince people that 48DP and 48P are different... THEY ARE NOT. Unless you can prove otherwise.
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tudordewolf
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I don't mean to resurrect an old thread, but I've got myself into the weeds of this now, and figure it's better than starting another, might as well document it for anyone who wants to know in the future...
There are 3 stock gears for the 1/10th HSP electrics.
a 58T (#03004 (aliexpress)(exceedRC)(redcat)) default for the brushed onroads,
and a 64T (#11164(aliexpress)(exceedRC)(redcat)) default for the brushed offroads,
and a 48T with a coarser pitch, (#11188(aliexpress)(exceedRC)(redcat)), default for the brushless vehicles of both varieties.
Aliexpress lists the finer pitched gears as 0.6mod
Exceed lists them as 48P
Redcat lists them as 0.6mod
Himoto Racing, and Italian sub-brand of HSP, lists them at 0.6 mod.
It is possible there are 2 production runs of gears as some sort of cruel joke on hobbyists, but I doubt it. I agree with the 0.6mod consensus.
We can't infer from the 48-pitch gear one way or the other whether the original designer was working in imperial or metric due to their similarity. However, the nitros use mod 1, and the 1:10 crawler uses mod 0.5, which I think is enough of a hint as to what the standard for the gears will be.
There don't seem to be that many spur gears available that use a pin-through-shaft arrangement, but I think we could borrow some from their other gearboxes...
They have 17T & 27T, , 25T , and 36T mod 1 gears that I think could be made to work with the electric model, which would open up some very extreme gearing options.
Further mod 0.8 gears can be borrowed from their 1/16th nitros with a 50T, #28007, and a 52T, #86063 which may need some extra work to fit the top brace of the 1/10th electrics, but even the 52T gear will only need 2mm more clearance than the 48T, so it's viable.
There are 3 stock gears for the 1/10th HSP electrics.
a 58T (#03004 (aliexpress)(exceedRC)(redcat)) default for the brushed onroads,
and a 64T (#11164(aliexpress)(exceedRC)(redcat)) default for the brushed offroads,
and a 48T with a coarser pitch, (#11188(aliexpress)(exceedRC)(redcat)), default for the brushless vehicles of both varieties.
Aliexpress lists the finer pitched gears as 0.6mod
Exceed lists them as 48P
Redcat lists them as 0.6mod
Himoto Racing, and Italian sub-brand of HSP, lists them at 0.6 mod.
It is possible there are 2 production runs of gears as some sort of cruel joke on hobbyists, but I doubt it. I agree with the 0.6mod consensus.
We can't infer from the 48-pitch gear one way or the other whether the original designer was working in imperial or metric due to their similarity. However, the nitros use mod 1, and the 1:10 crawler uses mod 0.5, which I think is enough of a hint as to what the standard for the gears will be.
There don't seem to be that many spur gears available that use a pin-through-shaft arrangement, but I think we could borrow some from their other gearboxes...
They have 17T & 27T, , 25T , and 36T mod 1 gears that I think could be made to work with the electric model, which would open up some very extreme gearing options.
Further mod 0.8 gears can be borrowed from their 1/16th nitros with a 50T, #28007, and a 52T, #86063 which may need some extra work to fit the top brace of the 1/10th electrics, but even the 52T gear will only need 2mm more clearance than the 48T, so it's viable.
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The thing is the Chinese RC companies are making or buying mod .6 gearing. But mod .6 and 48P are not close enough to really work. As you can see below, mod .8 and 32P are fairly close together. But in reality, running a mod .8 pinion with a mod .8 spur would be better than mixing pinion with a 32P in spur. They'll work, but wear out quicker.
With mod .6 and 48P, the difference between the two is too far to have a reliable mesh without generating heat from improper tooth alignment as the gears rotate.
The Chinese are notorious for just saying stuff like F it... it's 48P, but in reality, their CNC machines are setup in millimeters instead of imperial, so instead of creating gears with 48P, they are actually making mod .6 gears.
And I am willing to bet Exceed is outsourcing the gears. So you likely have two compaines saying F it. That, or the manufacturer saying F it, snd Exceed being clueless (likely scenario)
Close enough for them
With mod .6 and 48P, the difference between the two is too far to have a reliable mesh without generating heat from improper tooth alignment as the gears rotate.
The Chinese are notorious for just saying stuff like F it... it's 48P, but in reality, their CNC machines are setup in millimeters instead of imperial, so instead of creating gears with 48P, they are actually making mod .6 gears.
And I am willing to bet Exceed is outsourcing the gears. So you likely have two compaines saying F it. That, or the manufacturer saying F it, snd Exceed being clueless (likely scenario)
Close enough for them
From my own personal experience, i can tell you that i have never run across a 48P HSP based anything. I have owned a ton of the HSP, Redcat and Exceed Vehicles (i currently have two, but, at one point, i had 14 HSP based vehicles, from MT's, to buggies, to truggies, to road cars, and, any of them that have the blue or purple upper aluminum chassis brace, those are all mod .6 gears), and every one was mod .6, which i originally found out the hard way. However, some of Redcat's non HSP cars, like the Blackout, some of them do use 48P, and some dont, so, it is hit or miss with them. I bought two different Redcat Blackout XTE's, and one had 48P, and the other had mod .8, so, i think that was maybe due to a design change, since all the replacement spurs are mod .8.The thing is the Chinese RC companies are making or buying mod .6 gearing. But mod .6 and 48P are not close enough to really work. As you can see below, mod .8 and 32P are fairly close together. But in reality, running a mod .8 pinion with a mod .8 spur would be better than mixing pinion with a 32P in spur. They'll work, but wear out quicker.
With mod .6 and 48P, the difference between the two is too far to have a reliable mesh without generating heat from improper tooth alignment as the gears rotate.
The Chinese are notorious for just saying stuff like F it... it's 48P, but in reality, their CNC machines are setup in millimeters instead of imperial, so instead of creating gears with 48P, they are actually making mod .6 gears.
And I am willing to bet Exceed is outsourcing the gears. So you likely have two compaines saying F it. That, or the manufacturer saying F it, snd Exceed being clueless (likely scenario)
Close enough for them
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Umm... 48DP and 48P are the exact same pitch dude. 48P is just the common abbreviation for diametral pitch. DP or P is the distance around the pitch diameter from one tooth to the next.
I can only guess the reason you were stripping gears is because you were running 48P gearing with .6 mod gearing. They are not compatible. Let me reiterate - 48P and 48DP is the exact same pitch. Mod .6, while close, and nearly impossible to tell the difference with the naked eye, is a slightly different pitch, and just enough different they are not compatible.
So I don't understand at all what you are saying here. Your earlier post that I quoted here says they are all 48P, but your latest post here says you've never seen a 48P gearset on an HSP, and they are all .6. I'm confused
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