Restoration Project #8 - Huge Bundle of HPI, Kyosho and HSP.

[gandalfnz]

Are you able to tell me please, on your 11k, where is the mid range needle at?
Not able to take a photo of mine at the moment because on a Slash it becomes inaccessible once carb is installed, but I watched this video on youtube, and his 11k arrived with a mid needle set differently than mine.
I am a bit concerned with mid range and never touch it.

 

[tudordewolf]

Are you able to tell me please, on your 11k, where is the mid range needle at?
Not able to take a photo of mine at the moment because on a Slash it becomes inaccessible once carb is installed, but I watched this video on youtube, and his 11k arrived with a mid needle set differently than mine.
I am a bit concerned with mid range and never touch it.

Mine arrived like so, slightly recessed:

 

[gandalfnz]

Mine arrived like so, slightly recessed:
View attachment 166236
View attachment 166237

Mine is also slightly recessed, but under a different angle....its almost completely horizontal compared to carb neck.
Factory is stated to be 0.5 turns in, from flush with the housing... this is something I fail to understand, even if I move the needle half a turn clock wise or anti, its still flush with the housing, but that will complete throw it off the right setting.
Are you familiar with tuning the mid range, I would love to learn it, but info is very limited, usually ppl don't dare touch it.

Regarding the FFish, I now need to order a metal gearbox, plastic one is no good, too much play in the spur gears, and it just doesn't want to move freely when all tightened up, but loosen it, and clutch claw will only engage the side of the spur pin because of too much play! Crazy!

 

[tudordewolf]

Mine is also slightly recessed, but under a different angle....its almost completely horizontal compared to carb neck.
Factory is stated to be 0.5 turns in, from flush with the housing... this is something I fail to understand, even if I move the needle half a turn clock wise or anti, its still flush with the housing, but that will complete throw it off the right setting.
Are you familiar with tuning the mid range, I would love to learn it, but info is very limited, usually ppl don't dare touch it.

Regarding the FFish, I now need to order a metal gearbox, plastic one is no good, too much play in the spur gears, and it just doesn't want to move freely when all tightened up, but loosen it, and clutch claw will only engage the side of the spur pin because of too much play! Crazy!

I would venture a guess that maybe the midrange needle isn't "indexed"? If the slot and where the threads start aren't deliberately machined to the same position for every carb, then each one would have a random "orientation." Knowing OS I'd expect them to index, but that's the only explanation for all 3 of ours having different positions.

I don't know enough about midrange to give advice or mess with it yet, as far as my understanding goes from that one 80-minute-long tuning video, (the 20-23 minute mark) it's not a needle valve like the other 2, but adjusting the size of a chamber between them that fills up during idle and empties when you open the throttle, and even that video suggests you go with the manufacturer spec.

I've noticed too that the "claw" grabs the very tip of the gear/pin, but on mine I've luckily managed to get them close enough without binding that it makes "full" contact, though there's not a hair of width to spare...

 

[gandalfnz]

I would venture a guess that maybe the midrange needle isn't "indexed"? If the slot and where the threads start aren't deliberately machined to the same position for every carb, then each one would have a random "orientation." Knowing OS I'd expect them to index, but that's the only explanation for all 3 of ours having different positions.

I don't know enough about midrange to give advice or mess with it yet, as far as my understanding goes from that one 80-minute-long tuning video, (the 20-23 minute mark) it's not a needle valve like the other 2, but adjusting the size of a chamber between them that fills up during idle and empties when you open the throttle, and even that video suggests you go with the manufacturer spec.

I've noticed too that the "claw" grabs the very tip of the gear/pin, but on mine I've luckily managed to get them close enough without binding that it makes "full" contact, though there's not a hair of width to spare...

Not sure on mid range, I was told it can be adjusted by removing the brass HSN housing, and looking trough the hole.
Apparently the hole on the mid range is to be fully visible? No idea if this is the right way.

I am having issues with the Fish tranny, how did you get a snug fit, did you use any shims?

Is this the right tranny for the Fish, wouldn't want to end up with a buggy one?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32847142521.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.3.1471628fL3nPxr&algo_pvid=16d1aba4-0aba-4a7f-9abb-6851008fc2ff&algo_exp_id=16d1aba4-0aba-4a7f-9abb-6851008fc2ff-1&[email protected][email protected]!12000022910542899!sea!NZ!1726276287&curPageLogUid=nJnNlTUtzLxJ

 

[tudordewolf]

Not sure on mid range, I was told it can be adjusted by removing the brass HSN housing, and looking trough the hole.
Apparently the hole on the mid range is to be fully visible? No idea if this is the right way.

I am having issues with the Fish tranny, how did you get a snug fit, did you use any shims?

Is this the right tranny for the Fish, wouldn't want to end up with a buggy one?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32847142521.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.3.1471628fL3nPxr&algo_pvid=16d1aba4-0aba-4a7f-9abb-6851008fc2ff&algo_exp_id=16d1aba4-0aba-4a7f-9abb-6851008fc2ff-1&[email protected][email protected]!12000022910542899!sea!NZ!1726276287&curPageLogUid=nJnNlTUtzLxJ

I'd be reluctant to dismantle without an issue that needs resolution, seems like it's probably set right.

That link should be the one, the buggy one is "06034" on another listing.

Something I noticed with my FFish Transmissions is that they don't quite fit right until they're installed in a chassis; the "halves" pinch together slightly, making the gears feels like they're rubbing. I've always had to "stretch" them ever so slightly to pop the pegs into the holes on the chassis, after which they spin freely. Here's how mine looks in the car: (excuse the pollen, it's spring out here...)

And the tip of the claw has some deformation, but otherwise looks good. I had one so worn that it wouldn't recess back into the clutch, but I think that's because it wasn't extending fully so it was just getting hammered by the pin going by instead of grabbing it.

It almost looks like a flat has worn into the claw which would grab the pin very nicely, but that could just be a trick of the light and macro zoom.

 

[gandalfnz]

I'd be reluctant to dismantle without an issue that needs resolution, seems like it's probably set right.

That link should be the one, the buggy one is "06034" on another listing.

Something I noticed with my FFish Transmissions is that they don't quite fit right until they're installed in a chassis; the "halves" pinch together slightly, making the gears feels like they're rubbing. I've always had to "stretch" them ever so slightly to pop the pegs into the holes on the chassis, after which they spin freely. Here's how mine looks in the car: (excuse the pollen, it's spring out here...)

View attachment 166276

And the tip of the claw has some deformation, but otherwise looks good. I had one so worn that it wouldn't recess back into the clutch, but I think that's because it wasn't extending fully so it was just getting hammered by the pin going by instead of grabbing it.

View attachment 166277

It almost looks like a flat has worn into the claw which would grab the pin very nicely, but that could just be a trick of the light and macro zoom.

Agreed, I was not going to touch the mid needle until I have tested the car fully.

Thanks for the find mate, I will go ahead and order the fully metal 2 speed tranny and see if its any better, I will make it work if not good from factory.
Is there no play in the 2nd spur (close to clutch mech) on yours? Mine has a lot of play, could be the bearing I guess....

 

[tudordewolf]

Agreed, I was not going to touch the mid needle until I have tested the car fully.

Thanks for the find mate, I will go ahead and order the fully metal 2 speed tranny and see if its any better, I will make it work if not good from factory.
Is there no play in the 2nd spur (close to clutch mech) on yours? Mine has a lot of play, could be the bearing I guess....

There is a little play in mine, I can wiggle it with my finger, but it won't touch the bigger gear. It spins with no wobble.

I'm using no-name budget bearings, I've been wondering if "fancy" bearings would be worthwhile anywhere in the car. The transmission and diff inputs will spin over 10k rpm at high speeds, so maybe just those? I recently learned play doesn't necessarily mean the bearing is low-quality, so a more expensive bearing of the same type might have a similar amount.

 

[gandalfnz]

There is a little play in mine, I can wiggle it with my finger, but it won't touch the bigger gear. It spins with no wobble.

I'm using no-name budget bearings, I've been wondering if "fancy" bearings would be worthwhile anywhere in the car. The transmission and diff inputs will spin over 10k rpm at high speeds, so maybe just those? I recently learned play doesn't necessarily mean the bearing is low-quality, so a more expensive bearing of the same type might have a similar amount.

Sorry, forgot to reply to....yes I am aware that once installed, the gearbox spreads out a little allowing for some more play and less binding. I learnt a small trick today, leave the UJC (universal joint cups) lose on both sides, then once the gear box is in place and spreads a little only then tighten them up, that way it does not bind like it did before.

Happy to report that I nailed the tune today (finally!!), runs really well and returns to low idle instantly. Really good take off with 3 piece clutch shoes too.
I just started tuning from zero, needles flush with housing, HSN then LSN, I think I may have had the LSN too lean before.
Hopefully I will get a vid of it running tomorrow, I really need to get a go pro.

I will go ahead and order that metal gearbox anyway.
Same here, I use bearings from aliexpress, but I think there will be a difference between cheap and good branded ones.

Also, there's an opportunity for me to pick up a Kyosho GT2 for cheap, not too sure what to do, I think that car is a beast!

 

[tudordewolf]

Sorry, forgot to reply to....yes I am aware that once installed, the gearbox spreads out a little allowing for some more play and less binding. I learnt a small trick today, leave the UJC (universal joint cups) lose on both sides, then once the gear box is in place and spreads a little only then tighten them up, that way it does not bind like it did before.

Happy to report that I nailed the tune today (finally!!), runs really well and returns to low idle instantly. Really good take off with 3 piece clutch shoes too.
I just started tuning from zero, needles flush with housing, HSN then LSN, I think I may have had the LSN too lean before.
Hopefully I will get a vid of it running tomorrow, I really need to get a go pro.

I will go ahead and order that metal gearbox anyway.
Same here, I use bearings from aliexpress, but I think there will be a difference between cheap and good branded ones.

Also, there's an opportunity for me to pick up a Kyosho GT2 for cheap, not too sure what to do, I think that car is a beast!

I should've mentioned, I had to do exactly that with the outdrive cups. I forgot about it just looking at it.

I've been coveting an Inferno GT but I'm still holding off while I have neither the space nor time to accommodate another project without dragging out the current ones even longer... Looks like it should do ~54mph out of the box, not too shabby.

Knowing your restorations you'd made it look like you just built it from the kit yourself.

 

[gandalfnz]

GT sold, by the time I decided to make a move!
Purchased another 11k today, I haven't even tested the one I got earlier yet.
I have no doubt it will make a huge difference. I need another for my Jato.

 

[gandalfnz]

Man, I hope I am not troubling you too much, would you mind just removing the brass HSN holder, and taking a photo of how the MID range needle position?

I guess I find out when my second 11k arrives, but its a 1 month wait. Cheers

 

[tudordewolf]

Man, I hope I am not troubling you too much, would you mind just removing the brass HSN holder, and taking a photo of how the MID range needle position?

I guess I find out when my second 11k arrives, but its a 1 month wait. Cheers

I still haven't run mine for the first time yet and would rather hold off on doing that just yet; sorry.

In this video, there's another example, unless that's the one you were referring to earlier:

That's basically 90 degrees off from mine, so I think it must be based on housing rather than exact slot position.

 

[gandalfnz]

I still haven't run mine for the first time yet and would rather hold off on doing that just yet; sorry.

In this video, there's another example, unless that's the one you were referring to earlier:

View attachment 166589

That's basically 90 degrees off from mine, so I think it must be based on housing rather than exact slot position.

Hi

Yes that is the same video I was referring too.
I agree, the only way to say for sure is to unscrew the HSN brass housing, and then trough that hole you can see the position of the MID range needle, I have already done this but don't have another to compare it to.

Removing the brass hsn housing will not change or damage the carb in any way, but I undestand if you are not keen on doing this.
I will just wait for my second 11k to arrive and do a a comparison.

 

[gandalfnz]

Tried the 11k a day ago, was completely out of tune, which was to be expected.
Bottom end is incredible, you can really feel the difference on take off, but I feel it lacks top end, or it reaches the top end faster now, so it seems like its lacking it, if that makes sense. Need more testing on this.

I could not get the engine to idle as low as I'd like it to (kyosho), but it does drop back to idle instantly after a WOT, which is nice.
Need more testing on this too.

How weird is to say for a Traxxas that I could not bring the engine up to temp, I felt it was just running to cold, but tune was good, any leaner and it would bog. And fuel efficiency, wow, the best I have seen so far, the Slash with a traxxas carb was a nitro guzzler, mainly as I think we all run it rich thinking it will bring the temps down ( always runs too hot), with OS 11k Slash just wouldnt run out of fuel.

Overall, a good experience, is it worth $100, I am not sold on it yet.
Stock Traxxas carb is adequate at best, so long you know how to tune it, as its very finnicky, to tune LSN and get a low idle, but it can be done.

 

[tudordewolf]

Tried the 11k a day ago, was completely out of tune, which was to be expected.
Bottom end is incredible, you can really feel the difference on take off, but I feel it lacks top end, or it reaches the top end faster now, so it seems like its lacking it, if that makes sense. Need more testing on this.

I could not get the engine to idle as low as I'd like it to (kyosho), but it does drop back to idle instantly after a WOT, which is nice.
Need more testing on this too.

How weird is to say for a Traxxas that I could not bring the engine up to temp, I felt it was just running to cold, but tune was good, any leaner and it would bog. And fuel efficiency, wow, the best I have seen so far, the Slash with a traxxas carb was a nitro guzzler, mainly as I think we all run it rich thinking it will bring the temps down ( always runs too hot), with OS 11k Slash just wouldnt run out of fuel.

Overall, a good experience, is it worth $100, I am not sold on it yet.
Stock Traxxas carb is adequate at best, so long you know how to tune it, as its very finnicky, to tune LSN and get a low idle, but it can be done.

Fascinating about the temperature and consumption, I really should get mine running!

 

[gandalfnz]

Fascinating about the temperature and consumption, I really should get mine running!

We all waiting for those vids? haha

Funny, I ended up getting that Infertno GT after all for even less. Guy who bought it relisted it a week later, saying he doesn't know how to work it.
On its way now, looks in very good nick. Total cost, $120 USD, boom!
Its a GT1 though, with a Subary body.

 

[gandalfnz]

@tudordewolf

I was going trough my box of traxxas spares today, and look what I came across?
Looks exactly what we needed, traxxas makes it, not sure if you were aware.
Comparison with the one you sent me in the photo.

 

[tudordewolf]

@tudordewolf

I was going trough my box of traxxas spares today, and look what I came across?
Looks exactly what we needed, traxxas makes it, not sure if you were aware.
Comparison with the one you sent me in the photo.

View attachment 166934

Huh, I had no idea! That makes sense, considering the variety of clutch bells out there...

Congrats on the Inferno GT, that's a great deal! That's one of my future dream models, once I've cleared the backlog. I went ahead and ordered another roller to take the TRX 3.3, a transplant will be easier than trying to assemble one from scratch and I'll have no excuse to put it off any longer.

 

[Chubaka]

@tudordewolf

I was going trough my box of traxxas spares today, and look what I came across?
Looks exactly what we needed, traxxas makes it, not sure if you were aware.
Comparison with the one you sent me in the photo.

View attachment 166934

If those are shock screws, the wheelie bars use the same ones but longer.