PRP Swift

[niggle]

well guys this was a bust. i made up a nice print for the guy. now he's telling me he wants a CAD file to make it from. not only do i not have CAD software at home. but for the time it would take me to draw up, i should be getting the part for free. id be doing ALL the work for him. guess my search is still on for a manufacture to make upgraded parts the way i want them :shrug:

Shame about your contact letting you down. Don't give up, I'm sure you'll find a suitable manufacturing partner. Anyone with a half-decent input tablet should be able to transfer the critical dimensions to CAD from a print in a matter of minutes.

A friend of mine got some shock towers made for his NTC3 recently. The engineering company used his old shock towers as a template and cut the the new ones by laser.

This is a great thread from beginning to end. I have a Swift that I purchased last January and have experienced almost every technical issue that is discussed here. And I've also experienced the phenomenal service from Roger at Power Racing. Try calling Kyosho on the phone and asking a dumb question. (They hang up.)

But from a purely business viewpoint, the only real enemy the company has is the amount of time it is taking to get upgraded parts (like outdrives) into production and out to customers. If you read the whole thread, you get a sense of "customer weariness" over the known issues and how long it has taken to resolve them. I'm not sure if working with the current manufacturers is the best process for a small item like an outdrive. Could it be done somewhere else? I don't know, I'm not in the industry, but when one of my vendors can't deliver, I always have another number to call.

And PLEASE don't get me wrong. I love this car. I spend way too much time running it. ( I recently bought a set of 17 mm Foam street slicks on Ebay and now the Swift is the terror of my street.) Plus, I like the fact that it is not a Mugen or an Ofna or a Kyosho. Its still unique enough to be interesting.

Anyway, just my 2 cents, or maybe its a buck fifty....

I tend to agree. I don't run my Swift as often as I like, but when I do I run it hard and I'm mostly impressed with the way it is holding together.

My outdrives are showing obvious signs of wear. I'm not desperate to replace them yet but when I do I don't want to throw another set of soft ones in.

I too am a little confused as to why it's taking so long to resolve the outdrive issue. Some say it's just a matter of case hardening - if the Chinese cannot do it then why not just get them to machine the outdrives and have the case hardening done in bulk somewhere else?

The Mugen MBX-5 outdrives will also fit the Swift if the drive cup ends are machined down. Why not source these in bulk and have them machined down cheaply in China?

IMHO, if the outdrives were redesigned to have more material at the drive cup ends (like the centre diff outdrives) then in conjunction with reasonable case hardening the wear rate would come down to an acceptable level.

In any case, a bad reputation is hard to shake off and PRP should perhaps consider an alternative source for better quality outdrives until they can sort out their own QA issues. I appreciate that cost is an issue but I cannot believe that switching to a different source for outdrives alone would make the Swift unprofitable for PRP.

Perhaps Cameron or someone else from PRP would like to respond here and assure us that the Swift will continue receive manufacturer support? I'd hate to think that the Swift has been deemed a failure and has now been left out to grass in deference to the Raptor, Concept-X and XR-8 products.

Also, what is happening with the Swift Pro-kit? Will this make it into production after all?

 

[Smiffy]

i dont run my swift much, only when i get time. but when i do i find it runs superb. bein from the uk, parts are easy to get online with schu website, so what more could i want. "a good buggy at a good price with good backing from another great RC team". and some decent parts like outdrives. amoungst others. thats it.

That is all i can see that is wrong. maybe then others like the mugan or ofna would have to lower thair price., or offer more for your money. to keep up with PRP,

so come on PRP sort it out make them parts. make a already good buggy get what it really deserves.

 

[wagnerov]

Hello,

All the parts for the Swift Pro are now done, and are being packaged. The Swift Pro kit will also be available. All the parts will be on a slow boat from China to the USA, and will arrive in mid-September. The outdrives are done also, and I am trying to have those shipped by air...in which case, that could be as soon as a week from now. There's only so much I can ask.

Swift owners won't be forgotten, we're working on getting some new racers like Jose to work on the car. Recently the Swift Pro took 3rd in the Kyosho Challenge race in Hong Kong in the 45-minute a-main....so the potential is still there!

We're still here, and things will be kickin' again soon.

 

[niggle]

Hello,

All the parts for the Swift Pro are now done, and are being packaged. The Swift Pro kit will also be available. All the parts will be on a slow boat from China to the USA, and will arrive in mid-September. The outdrives are done also, and I am trying to have those shipped by air...in which case, that could be as soon as a week from now. There's only so much I can ask.

Swift owners won't be forgotten, we're working on getting some new racers like Jose to work on the car. Recently the Swift Pro took 3rd in the Kyosho Challenge race in Hong Kong in the 45-minute a-main....so the potential is still there!

We're still here, and things will be kickin' again soon.

Hi Cam, thanks for the update.

I think some [more] sponsored rides would definitely be good P.R. for PRP. There's a bit of noise coming up on the UK forums, knocking the Swift and claiming the quality is generally poor. Those of us who know better try to counter this but some exposure at national race meetings would certainly help.

Looking forward to the new outdrives, mine are definitely getting ragged now!

 

[Harg]

SWIFT Overall quality

Just my 0.0.2$

Can anyone just tell what is 1:8 Buggy that runs tons of gallons without maintenace?
Without broking any part of it?
Without need to replace any part of it?
You can't find such car....

Swift, like other cars need maintenance and good care from owner side.

OK! My personal remarks:
Outdrives are little soft (I have so called 2. batch car from Schumi UK)
Original clutches are extreameley soft (picture "sidur1" shows what is left after 8 tanks of fuel) Upgrade is needed ASAP. Considered Done! Mugen Black shoes with original springs.
Soft clutch costs me TQ in our National Champs.

Forgot to mention that SWIFT is great. I'm not complainig, exept my driving skills (who wouldn't )

 

[JamesColclough88]

Dear Fellow Swift drivers,

I’ve been running my Swift for the last few months and I have been generally quite impressed. I have though managed to break quite a few parts, and it is the same parts that keep breaking. Although replacement parts are quite accessible I was wondering if anybody knows of any manufacturers/retails/online sites etc that are selling replacement parts where the standard plastic parts are being machined from aluminium. I am particularly interested in finding aluminium ‘Lower Suspension Mounts(Front & Rear)’ and ‘Front Brace’.

Also I’m having a little trouble with the Swifts stopping power; at first it was great but now I am struggling to get the breaks on the centre diff to bite. Has anybody made any alterations to the breaks that they have found to be successful? Are there better disks available? How long would you expect the break pads to last?

I am also interested to hear of any modifications that people have made, other than the standard shims and outdrive issues, which have made an improvement.

Thanks for your help!

 

[Harg]

Also I’m having a little trouble with the Swifts stopping power; at first it was great but now I am struggling to get the breaks on the centre diff to bite. Has anybody made any alterations to the breaks that they have found to be successful?

I noticed same symptoms on my Swift to.
Brake pad holding screws tend to came bit lose and for this reason brake arm knuckles did not have enough close to brake pads to bite. After retensioning thease screws brakes are good again.

Somewhere in this thread was mention about similar situation where engines flywheel was affected, because brake pad holding screws went to loose.

 

[HIREz]

All buggies require maintenaince, certain buggies require more or less maintenaince than others to stay at the top.
on the 8th scale buggies I've owned, (X-5 and K-3), to race at a competitive level, go down the list during every race day and check tolerances and cleanliness on the car...
#1 Air cleaner, cleaniliness and what the longevity pertaining to the track you're running at
#2 Clutch shoes and springs, throughout the day, check the tension on each spring and surface cleanliness of each shoe.
After every 2 qualifiers(if using mugen springs), I usually pull them and check rebound on the spring and tension,if using kyosho springs its usually good for 2 -3 full days of racing including qualifiers and mains...
Experience has shown reguardless of which car I use,,, kyosho clutch springs are a must under heavy use... mugens go out alot faster,,for shoes mugen aluminums have good weight and have good longevity, where kyo alums are thinner along the contact surface and structural, and although are good performers go out faster.. so for long mains and weekends where I know I want the clutch to last longer, it'll be kyo 1.0's with mugen aluminum shoes,,, this using an O.S. or P-5 set-up,, with a WS7II it's a different deal...
Same goes for the composite shoes, the mugens seem to "cone" or wear crooked under heat, they warp in other words... where-as the kyosho mp-6.5 composite shoes work well reguardless of the engagement, cut the tips and they rock....
WS7II set-up kyosho composite 6.5 shoes with kyosho 1.0's or 1.1's springs
O.S. or P-5 Mugen aluminums or kyp 6.5 shoes with kyosho 1.0's springs


For the rest of the car,, measure the slop in time... build the car and "feel" the tolerances on all the joints and diffs, then "measure" or "feel" the slop throughout every race day,, then take mental notes...
ex... it's taken 2 solid weeks of use for the front pbs on the mugen to feel looser than fresh build.... for the kyosho car it's taken about 4 days for the front end to feel looser than than "fresh"... the overall joints are still good and the cars react fluidly and fairly precise, but it's getting close to new arm time,,.....also keep in mind the hinge pins, upper arms and shock towers or wherever the pins pivot within......
This is only for racing though,, bashing,, who cares ,, it's still in one piece right? I know this isn't swift specific info, but it is something to take into consideration for measuring the tolerances on your car when racing at an upper-type level... possibly.. *grin*

Lates!!
-Will-
www.WilzWerx.com

Just my 0.0.2$

Can anyone just tell what is 1:8 Buggy that runs tons of gallons without maintenace?
Without broking any part of it?
Without need to replace any part of it?
You can't find such car....

Swift, like other cars need maintenance and good care from owner side.

OK! My personal remarks:
Outdrives are little soft (I have so called 2. batch car from Schumi UK)
Original clutches are extreameley soft (picture "sidur1" shows what is left after 8 tanks of fuel) Upgrade is needed ASAP. Considered Done! Mugen Black shoes with original springs.
Soft clutch costs me TQ in our National Champs.

Forgot to mention that SWIFT is great. I'm not complainig, exept my driving skills (who wouldn't )

 

[CorradoPsi]

Hello,

All the parts for the Swift Pro are now done, and are being packaged. The Swift Pro kit will also be available. All the parts will be on a slow boat from China to the USA, and will arrive in mid-September. The outdrives are done also, and I am trying to have those shipped by air...in which case, that could be as soon as a week from now. There's only so much I can ask.

Swift owners won't be forgotten, we're working on getting some new racers like Jose to work on the car. Recently the Swift Pro took 3rd in the Kyosho Challenge race in Hong Kong in the 45-minute a-main....so the potential is still there!

We're still here, and things will be kickin' again soon.

glad to hear things are still moving forward.

since out-drives are on the way. and we all need them. how will you go about distributing them? will we be getting free replacements? on an exchange basis for worn out ones, or will you just ship them when we send you an email?

can you also list the part #'s for the new pro parts that are comming over so that we can give our LHS something to order.

 

[niggle]

After every 2 qualifiers(if using mugen springs), I usually pull them and check rebound on the spring and tension,if using kyosho springs its usually good for 2 -3 full days of racing including qualifiers and mains...
Experience has shown reguardless of which car I use,,, kyosho clutch springs are a must under heavy use... mugens go out alot faster,,for shoes mugen aluminums have good weight and have good longevity, where kyo alums are thinner along the contact surface and structural, and although are good performers go out faster.. so for long mains and weekends where I know I want the clutch to last longer, it'll be kyo 1.0's with mugen aluminum shoes,,, this using an O.S. or P-5 set-up,, with a WS7II it's a different deal...
Same goes for the composite shoes, the mugens seem to "cone" or wear crooked under heat, they warp in other words... where-as the kyosho mp-6.5 composite shoes work well reguardless of the engagement, cut the tips and they rock....
WS7II set-up kyosho composite 6.5 shoes with kyosho 1.0's or 1.1's springs
O.S. or P-5 Mugen aluminums or kyp 6.5 shoes with kyosho 1.0's springs

If you are competing at this level and presumably have spent $,000s, would this not merit investment in an adjustable, sliding or 4-shoe clutch?

Original clutches are extreameley soft (picture "sidur1" shows what is left after 8 tanks of fuel) Upgrade is needed ASAP. Considered Done! Mugen Black shoes with original springs.
Soft clutch costs me TQ in our National Champs.

AFAIK, the Mugen white teflon shoes are harder and more durable than the black ones but are still not as aggressive as an aluminium shoe setup.


Here are my observations/experiences so far with regard to brake problems on the Swift.

Brake caliper binding
I have noticed that the brake calipers can bind on the threads on the caliper mounting screws. This can cause both loss of braking (as the brake levers are unable to push the pads onto the discs) and sticking brakes (as the pads do not release properly).

My solution here is to use a longer socket screw with a plain shank under the head, the calipers then float freely on the unthreaded shank. You will also find that you can afford to reduce the brake clearance with this setup and this sharpen the brakes, as there is less chance of caliper binding.

I used 25mm stainless screws which I then cut down so that the threaded end does not interfere with the centre diff and/or spur gear. The crucial dimension here is the length of the plain shank. You need about 10mm. I chose stainless screws as these will be more resistant to wear and there is less chance of the calipers binding on any corrosion on the screws.

I also recommend stainless fasteners as an upgrade to all metal-to-metal fasteners on the Swift and also for the rear hub upper pivots and rear chassis brace upper mounting. The heads are less prone to stripping when used as metal-to-metal fasteners and they are less prone to bending when used for the rear hubs and chassis brace.

Brake servo
IMHO, the stock brake servo is only just man enough for the job. I use a 6v 1800mAh receiver pack and braking is adequate when the Rx pack has a decent amount of charge left but when it gets to the point where the steering servo is just starting to go off (HS645MG on my car) the brake servo has all but given up.

In any case, the adjustment of the throttle rod tension spring is critical. You need to set it such that there is just enough tension to hold the throttle slide closed at idle. Any more than this and the stock brake servo will have difficulty in overcoming the spring tension to pull the brakes on.

Flywheel binding
On both my Swifts there is evidence the the flywheel has come into contact with the rearmost brake caliper.

WA2FAST has reported that his flywheel appears to bind on the brake caliper mounting screw head on hard landings, sufficient to stop the engine in some cases.

Since modifying my brake caliper mounting setup there is now more clearance between the rearmost caliper and the flywheel. Other solutions might be a smaller but thicker flywheel, a larger pinion gear (14T?) or using a single disc setup for the rear brakes.

I am currently looking for an alternative flywheel and clutch setup for a Hyper 8-port that I intend to fit. I am also on the lookout for some better brake discs that might fit the Swift and allow me to run a single disc setup, at least for the rear. Hyper 7 discs look as though they might fit.

 

[HIREz]

Someone posted something about getting more high-end drivers running the swift.... I saw Phillip Atondo running a Swift this weekend,, one word.... FFFFFAAAASSSTTTTT....... blowing by the 7.5's, k-3's and anything else like a typhoon,,,his first day with the car and still scary fast.......

-Will-
www.WilzWerx.com

 

[wagnerov]

Ooops. Someone let the cat out of the bag. That's not official!

Anyway, I'll have the new part numbers for Swift Pro items in the next few days, when we receive the invoice from China....I can post them then.

 

[Smiffy]

hello fellow swift peeps.

could anyone tell me what servos they recommed for use in the swift

 

[HP Invent]

hello fellow swift peeps.

could anyone tell me what servos they recommed for use in the swift

I would reccommend any high torque servo for the steering and a high speed servo for the throttle.

 

[Smiffy]

i bought a failsafe for my swift, i was useing the standed servos u get with the swift, my failsafe didnt fit it,, i am gettin new servos anyway now, but i was wondering if i need to make sure they will be compatiable, or does it matter?

btw guys I'm gonna be doing some vids soon, of the swift racing around the beach should be good,

 

[niggle]

I would reccommend any high torque servo for the steering and a high speed servo for the throttle.

100oz/in seems to be the minimum recommended torque for a steering servo.

I use a Hitec HS645MG which is 133oz/in at 6V. On paper, it is not the fastest servo at 0.20s @ 6V but it is not expensive (30 quid) and you have to bear in mind that speeds are quoted with no load.

Therefore there may not be much difference when loaded between a 100oz/0.10s servo that is struggling to move the steering arms and a 133oz/0.20s servo that can move the steering arms with ease.

The stock throttle/brake servo struggles to pull the brakes on with anything less than a fully charged Rx pack. I would go for 100oz/in minimum here too.

IMHO throttle/brake servo speed is not as important on loose surfaces, you need to apply the throttle and brakes progressively and smoothly to keep the car balanced and keep traction.

A decent rechargeable 6V Rx pack is essential. 4 alkaline cells can't supply enough current for the higher torque servos.

I made my own 1800mAH hump packs using 5 x AA NiMH cells and this fits quite snugly in the Swift's battery box with the failsafe on top. The battery pack and failsafe are held in place using self-adhesive velcro (hook and loop) tape.

What type of failsafe did you get? I use a GWS failsafe and the Hitec and stock servo connectors fit with no problems.

 

[Smiffy]

i have a hump pack, all sorted. on that front

i can't make my mind up on the servos, i had a look at the two servos u said. they seem good, i noticed there are a couple from Bluebird, in a nice purple case, anyone know what they are like?

BMS631MG Bluebird
Super Speed Metal Gear Servo

BMS620MG Bluebird
Hi Torque Metal Gear Servo

 

[Savage_SAVAGE]

Look what I just found on ebay..............

I thought it was Niggle (Mr 2 cars!) at first!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=19168&item=5916403960&rd=1

If you look through the sellers feedback, you'll see he bought one of the Swifts off ebay for £190, BOXED never run!!!

 

[cbreaker]

IMHO throttle/brake servo speed is not as important on loose surfaces, you need to apply the throttle and brakes progressively and smoothly to keep the car balanced and keep traction.

I guess it heavily depends on your track conditions.

I moved from my JR590 (90oz, .15) to a digital Hitec servo (125oz, .08) and I have noticed a pleasant increase in throttle response and it's helped me out. Although slamming the gas will make the rear-end of the buggy fly out more then before, as long as you don't do that it's all good. The fact that the servo closes the throttle faster makes a big difference around corners and when I throttle-blip around some turns. The faster the throttle closes the easier it is to maneuver.

Of course, the JR590 was okay too, I just got the Hitec to see if it would be any better, and it is better.

That's my take on it.

 

[niggle]

I guess it heavily depends on your track conditions.

I moved from my JR590 (90oz, .15) to a digital Hitec servo (125oz, .08) and I have noticed a pleasant increase in throttle response and it's helped me out. Although slamming the gas will make the rear-end of the buggy fly out more then before, as long as you don't do that it's all good. The fact that the servo closes the throttle faster makes a big difference around corners and when I throttle-blip around some turns. The faster the throttle closes the easier it is to maneuver.

Of course, the JR590 was okay too, I just got the Hitec to see if it would be any better, and it is better.

That's my take on it.

I take your point about shutting down the throttle quickly. I can see how this would help the weight transfer to the front wheels in tight turns and reduce chance of overshooting the turn due to late braking.