Old dog neews to learn new tricks

[Reddog]

With the last track I could race nitro at going all electric it is time for me to learn electric. Now the last time I ran electric being all brushed and nicad batteries I need to learn about brushless and lipo batts. I do have a good balancing charger with heat monitor.
I have been looking at speed controls and motors. Now as I understand the wrong speed control can burn up everything. So, I have been looking at Castle Creations combo kits, figuring that to be the best way to start out until I know more and can buy separate and know I am getting the right stuff.
More than anything I do not want to make some simple mistake that costs me a bundle in the end because I missed something stupid. What are the common mistakes? What is the best way to get started with electric? I will be building an entire new truck so no conversions here, I do still rather enjoy my nitro. I just want to be able to race as well.
Thanks in advance, Shaun

 

[SMaxxin]

I don't race so I don't know the rules but I do know that you will have guidelines to follow on your battery, motor, and esc. Step one is to know what you can and can't use on the track, this will eliminate the possibility of buying something you can't use. Next will be to determine which kit you plan on racing so someone can suggest a set up.

I do like Castle products but I would think a sensored setup would be more ideal for racing, especially if you have to run a 2s pack. Several guys here have experience racing electric, if you provide them with the info they should be able to help get you going in the right direction.

 

[hamz9561]

What kind of vehicle are you looking to race? I use a lot of Castle Creations sets in my bashers.

 

[srusinek]

Youy can't beat this truck out of the box and for the price gets you in the door so to speak at a reasonable price. Also if for some reason you can't race due to other circumstances, then you're not into it for very much.

Short course truck

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXBVKU&P=SM

Two wheel drive buggy

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LWC205BY&P=7

The buggy does not come with a combo but you might get a discount if you we're to call them and see what they can do.

 

[Reddog]

I am looking to race 2wd trucks. I have an old RC10 that I was going to use for now. The local track will allow only a 2s in a stock class. I do not believe that this old truck will be competitive but I am just planning on using it to learn the brushless systems for now.
What is the sensor for? Is it better to run a sensored or senorless motor?
Thank You, Shaun

 

[Sixtysixdeuce]

Now as I understand the wrong speed control can burn up everything.

Not so much "wrong", but insufficient. Try to use something that can't supply the motor with power the battery is capable of delivering, you'll let the smoke out.

Similarly, use a battery that can't keep up with the ESC & motor, you'll cook the ESC-capacitors first, then transistors.

What is the sensor for? Is it better to run a sensored or senorless motor?

There's a thread here that explains it in great detail, but basically a sensorless motor uses EM feedback to determine rotor postion. As such, they may spin backwards for a split second, and they can be coggy at low speed. Sensored is just what it implies; they have a sensor that communicates rotor position to the ESC. Most sensored motors go into sensorless operation once they get up to a certain RPM, but they will be smoother down low and a couple milliseconds faster off the line than a sensorless that starts out spinning the wrong way.

Having said that, sensorless works fine for the overwhelming majority of enthusiasts, and is a little more economical.

I have an old RC10 that I was going to use for now. The local track will allow only a 2s in a stock class.

Funny, I was just making recommendations for a 10T build over on RC10Talk. That wasn't you, was it? If not, it definitely applies, so you might check it out:

http://www.rc10talk.com/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=34793

Of course, the motor recommendations I made there may or may not be legal where you race. If you're gonna do ROAR stuff, you need to look at their class rules.

I do not believe that this old truck will be competitive but I am just planning on using it to learn the brushless systems for now.

It certainly can. I run a modernized 10T on our local indoor, and have no problem keeping up. I can't quite hang with the modern buggies (what ST can?), but I'm generally faster than the SCTs, 2WD or 4WD. Can't really tell you how I do against other STs, though, as I'm about the only one running a stadium truck.

Vintage stuff certainly can be competitive, it's just not economical compared to buying a new kit. I have way more invested in that 10T than I would in a new T4.2, losi 22T or Durango DEST210 to be able to run at the same level. But I like my vintage kits!

 

[SMaxxin]

A sensored system will be smoother especially on a 2s pack. I don't care for Novak but they are super smooth and easy to drive IMO, I have has a few esc's go up in smoke for no reason. I think a Tekin combo would be my choice for racing.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXDHNY&P=SM

If you are set on the castle combo make sure you can run it at your track, a 17.5 motor is in the mid 2000kv range and the lowest KV castle makes for 1/10 is 3800kv.

 

[Reddog]

Not set on any one make. I had just heard that castle was a real good brand so that is why I was looking at them. I have been looking at the rules and will follow the suggestions made here to get started.
It is intimidating running nitro all this time and now going to put at least one electric in my bunch. Unfamiliar ground here, which is kinda why I have not done so before now.
Thank You, Shaun

 

[SMaxxin]

It's a little wierd at first, you have all the power and no noise lol

 

[Sixtysixdeuce]

I had just heard that castle was a real good brand so that is why I was looking at them.

They're great for bashing, but nobody is racing with CC systems for the reason SMaxxin mentioned; they don't offer race legal motors, unless you're running in a club level mod/unlimited class. My local track has a class that allows you to run any 05 style motor, as long as it's on 2S/6 cell. But the ROAR sanctioned off road trucks have to be in the 13.5 mod or 17.5 stock class.

Personally, I think ROAR electric rules are kinda stupid. I believe any motor should be allowed, just restrict the power to 2S, or limit the maximum watt output of the can. IMO, it shouldn't matter if you're running a 13.5 with a 24T pinion or an 8.5 with a 16T pinion, because the torque and speed capabilities end up being a wash. I had an LRP 8.5 in my composite RC10 buggy, and switched to a Hobbywing Xerun 13.5 so I could race at the local indoor. The power curve feels a little bit different, but the 8.5 certainly wasn't faster.

It is intimidating running nitro all this time and now going to put at least one electric in my bunch

They're just different. The up side is that you don't have to burn 1/2 tank each time getting dialed in, and they can be upside down indefinitely. Downside is needing a bunch of expensive batteries to run all day, and unless you're conservative with gearing and timing, you'll have to be more mindful of temps if you try to run for extended periods.

I don't know if you checked out the thread I linked, but if you're going to race this thing, you should take a serious look at the Hobbywing Xerun series. The V2.1 is last year's premium system, being sold as this year's mid tier, and at very good prices. You can get a 13.5T/90 Amp Xerun V2.1 sensored combo for $130:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hobbywing-C...Control_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f22a713a0

Unless you're ready to drop better than $250, in which case I'd be deciding between the Xerun V3.1 or Tekin RS/RSX

 

[Reddog]

With the response I got when looking for the rules and classes I do not know if I will be racing. I was informed that 1: reworking an old truck is a waste of time and money 2: I will not be able to make it legal for racing and 3: my trucks are not Losi so they are junk.
To me this negative reaction tells me they are not interested in having new racers so I do not believe that I will be racing at all. Thank You all for your help, Shaun

 

[aMawds]

That's an annoying opinion for them to hold, but it's still just an opinion. Are you gonna win? Probably not. But at my track the guys were more than helpful when I showed up with a sub 200 dollar nitro RTR buggy, not only helping me tune the engine but giving me a good set of half used tires. They said it was handling the jumps very well and when I expressed my interest in racing they said I probably wouldn't be winning any races against their Losi's and stuff but I could definitely hold my own with some work

 

[Sixtysixdeuce]

I was informed that 1: reworking an old truck is a waste of time and money 2: I will not be able to make it legal for racing and 3: my trucks are not Losi so they are junk.

Sounds like a very pretentious bunch!

Don't take it to heart, though. Build your truck, then go race it! Seriously, the vintage kits can run. We had a fellow show up with a brand new Futaba 4PKS-R to control his freshly built RC10B5; you're talking well over $1,000 investment. Funny, I had no trouble keeping up with this:

Vintage wide arm composite craft RC10 with RPM-housed stealth, stock shocks, and a relatively inexpensive Turnigy lipo/Dynamite ESC/Hobbywing Xerun 13.5 system. Modern tires (proline scrubs MC up front, JConcepts gold Barcodes in back) on JC racing 5 spoke wheels, and I did put GT wide axles up front, but otherwise it's a 25 year old kit. Oh, and my radio gear barely cost 1/10 of what his did.

Two things you can do:

1) find a more friendly group

2) when your truck is dialed in and your skill up to par, go show them how foolish they are.

The staff at one of my local tracks razz me about running mostly vintage, but they don't talk down, because they know that, despite running mostly older kits and not using really high dollar electronics, I know how to put a car together and I know how to drive it.

 

[Reddog]

Thank You, I needed the boost. I have already started work on the vintage RC10. Now with having the thought of just going to have fun I will still show them just what a vintage truck can do. I have the rules for this summer in hand. It states, "Any motor' Any ESC and 2S lipo max" With those rules how can it NOT meet the rules?
Thanks again, Shaun

 

[Sixtysixdeuce]

"Any motor' Any ESC and 2S lipo max"

In that case, allow me to make a budget friendly recommendation that will spank any combo at a similar price point:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/310872878740?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p398 4.m1439.l2649

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ezrun-120A-...ntrol_Parts_Accessories&ha sh=item4ac3b129ea

It's a 1/8 ESC, but lightweight with a small footprint. Believe me when I tell you that this thing can deliver the power. I bought one just to try out after cooking yet another 90 amp ESC in my Prolite, and I'm absolutely sold on them. They will push 42mm 1/8 scale motors on 4S with no trouble, probably will never reach 100*F running a 540 can on 2S.

That Leopard motor isn't necessarily better than the Castle 1410 or other similar 4 pole units, but Atomik has them on sale for $42 shipped, which you really can't beat. I have one of these in my carbon fiber "destroyer" buggy, which is geared aggressively. It'll flip over backwards on 2S up to about 20 MPH, total animal on 3S (think jumping cat firework if you hammer it). And this motor is 17 volts rated, where most 540 cans are 14 volts max.

Unless, of course, you want to spend more, get into a sensored system. But these will make for a fun basher, a truck that has more than enough oomph for any 1/10 track, and can take 3S and even 4S if you wanna push insane top speeds on-road (North of 80 MPH pretty easily).

And yes, your stealth trans will take it (not 4S off-road, though). Even if you do break something, AE is making new stealth parts again!