My Very Sad Sad Post

[BULL1TT_KEV]

Being in my 2nd year of RC (with my 13 yr old son) I thought we would by 2 new buggies and truggies this year. My son was really excited to see this stuff that we would have to run. Well sadly to say. The 2 units never made it off the starter boxes without ALL the servos puking, The motor in the buggy failing by the 14th tank of fuel, and the truggy motor seizing all together before 19 tanks. I have kept a log book for these new cars and have done my best to do proper break ins, set end points on servo's, Droop screw's etc etc as this is not my first rodeo.

I came here to say this because I do not want other family's that may be on a budget to go through what we did. I am stuck with 2 RC's that need motors now, That I can't just buy, and my son is heartbroken. Not to mention that the manufacturer that I spoke to on the phone basically told me tough luck on the phone today. I am really disappointed and can not believe how I was treated when I called. No help whatsoever. If you care to know what brand it is, I will tell ya in a PM. But I will tell ya this, I aint had a Hole Lotta ____ if you get my drift!

 

[Racer 1966]

If they weren't cheap brand,that's some BAD luck or you missed something during set up and break-in.

If you're sure you didn't do anything wrong,I wouldn't be afraid of mentioning brands/models of what you had problems with.

 

[Krawlin]

I am curious to know what brand these are as well. The servo's shouldn't have crapped out with the cars on the starter box unless you were running LiPos with servos not meant for the high voltage, or they must be some terrible off brand/no name servos in these cars, or you didn't set your EPA's right (I know you said you did, but did you double check?).

Given the proper break in procedure, meaning did you do what the manual said which could be the issue or did you do the now considered proper and only right way to do it method of heat cycling, the engines shouldn't have just died out, and if you were going up to 19 tanks on the box then that's WAY too much for a break in procedure if you were serious about the cars never making it off the starter boxes.

If they were on the box for 14 / 19 tanks, that to me means they were difficult to tune/improperly tuned and you were constantly trying to crank it over to keep it running when it was improperly tuned, this may not be the case but this is what it sounds like because of the lack of details here.

8 to 10 tanks is about all you really need to get the engine to where you can start giving it a regular/race tune if you used the heat cycle method, and that's on the high side, I usually start putting mine to full race tune by tank 8, and only had a few engines that ever failed under 5 gallons (all that failed under 5 gallons were all RTR engines, any of my good race engines have always lasted me at least 7 gallons with the exception of a Picco I've got now that had a rear bearing failure, however I am fixing it, piston/sleeve still have alot of life left).


Honestly, I would come right out and say the brand name, in this day, it may change a few people's minds about buying that vehicle brand, but this sounds to me like some oddball fluke. However, you mentioned you bought a new buggy and truggy for you and your son so I am going to assume these are RTR's, and you also mentioned they were on a starter box, so I am going to bet its a Losi 8ight-B 2.0 and Losi 8ight-T 2.0, since they are about the only RTR buggy/truggy out there that comes with a starter box and all in their whole setup out of the box.

If they are Losi's, I don't think this should of happened and it could possibly be operator error. However, I am not a fan of Losi, but I have dealt with Horizon Hobby before on product problems and they are usually pretty good about warranty service, but I have heard otherwise from other people before. Not calling you out though saying that yeah you messed up, but a complete systems meltdown like what you've described rarely happens on its own without something wrong somewhere in the whole system (like maybe running a LiPo battery with servos that aren't meant for high voltage for instance, and improper tuning/break in).

 

[BULL1TT_KEV]

I read how I wrote that so I will clarify, The servo's puked before they were put thru the first few tanks of fuel. I replaced them with better ones and got them on the ground to heat cycle the motors. As far as them breaking, Both cars were very hard to break in, They did not want to consistently run Ever. and after 10 tanks on both "RTR"'s I had alot of trouble with them running still. I have owned over a dozed cars that worked flawlessly and even my local hobby shop agreed that these motors were fishy. The Buggy basically would not have any compression when above 140 degrees, and The Truggy is seized. I believe it is a crank bearing, but did take it apart thinking the manufacturer was going to help. And I do not want to bash the company, hence why I did not say the name.

Both the Buggy and truggy are RTR's and have pretty Blue and Red starter boxes that came with the kits. Fancy Radio's too.

hope that helps.

I know it was not user error. My buddy that helped me break em in has run Nitro RC's for a long time. We did everything right. 4 tanks on the box, 4 tanks rich on the ground, 2 tanks a lil leaner, 4 more tanks a lil leaner, then tried to tune em.

 

[Racer 1966]

I 4 tanks on the box, 4 tanks rich on the ground, 2 tanks a lil leaner, 4 more tanks a lil leaner, then tried to tune em.

That's not heat cycling. The actual heat cycle method is HERE. 4 tanks on the box is a waste of fuel and did no good for the engines IMO. And you don't lean the engine out any until after break-in. You just change the amount of throttle/rpm you allow the engine to have.

 

[Krawlin]

I read how I wrote that so I will clarify, The servo's puked before they were put thru the first few tanks of fuel. I replaced them with better ones and got them on the ground to heat cycle the motors. As far as them breaking, Both cars were very hard to break in, They did not want to consistently run Ever. and after 10 tanks on both "RTR"'s I had alot of trouble with them running still. I have owned over a dozed cars that worked flawlessly and even my local hobby shop agreed that these motors were fishy. The Buggy basically would not have any compression when above 140 degrees, and The Truggy is seized. I believe it is a crank bearing, but did take it apart thinking the manufacturer was going to help. And I do not want to bash the company, hence why I did not say the name.

Both the Buggy and truggy are RTR's and have pretty Blue and Red starter boxes that came with the kits. Fancy Radio's too.

hope that helps.

I know it was not user error. My buddy that helped me break em in has run Nitro RC's for a long time. We did everything right. 4 tanks on the box, 4 tanks rich on the ground, 2 tanks a lil leaner, 4 more tanks a lil leaner, then tried to tune em.

These cars would be Losi. Just come outright and say it, your clue made it obvious but just put it in a post for future reference if someone finds this in a search. I doubt 1 instance of an oddball multi-car screw up is going to be classified as bashing the company, and I doubt it's going to cause a ton of people to not buy Losi anymore.


It should be obvious that an engine will not run very consistently during break in, because you have a fairly rich tune on them and they are tight, not the best recipe for consistent running. 10 tanks alone is more than enough for your initial break in to start leaning the engine out. And with heat cycling, you are NOT supposed to have a super super rich tune like the manual will say, a really rich tune for break in puts ALOT of stress on the conrod because the piston is slamming into all of that unburnt fuel, remember that liquid doesn't compress, flooding an engine is just as bad stress wise as sucking in water, same concept here.

Your break in was not the heat cycle method, it was likely worse than what the manual would say with that many tanks being run through it so rich. Heat cycling involves giving the engine a leaner tune, not a full on race tune, but lean enough to where it should run fairly smooth but still spitting. In other words, not too lean and not too rich, its an easy tune to find. It will spit and bog with the application of throttle, but it wont struggle to run. Also, on ALL startups during break in you need to preheat the engine to about 140*F to 150*F with a heat gun. Anyway, with a tune like that, you get the engine running and don't do more than like 1/3 throttle, or idle if you want, but you NEED to get it up to at least 220* F. If you do not, the piston and sleeve will not expand enough and they will wear TDC prematurely and you will have no mechanical pinch left. You get the engine up to full operating temp (220*F to 250*F) and keep it there for a few minutes, then shut it off, and put the piston to BDC, and let it cool completely to ambient temps. Then break out the heat gun again, preheat to 140*F to 150*F, start the engine, get the temps up to 220*F+ (In order to get it this hot with idling on the box, or even actually slowly driving it around, you will likely have to put foil or a sock over the cooling head), then once its up to temp, keep it there for a few minutes, then shut it down and put the piston to BDC and let it cool completely to ambient temps. Repeat this process until it has run through about 5 to 8 tanks (Everyone's opinion on how many tanks you should heat cycle the engine, but in my experience I have found 5 to 8 tanks depending on the engine to be sufficient). And the further into the process you get, the more throttle you can give the engine, and you actually can lean the tune somewhat to keep the temps up because with a rich tune giving it more throttle will actually cool the engine down because of how much fuel is running through it. Adjust for temps during break in, you want it to be in the normal operating range.

Doing the heat cycle method this way will get you the best results, far better than the method you and your buddy used. I think your buddy needs to read up on some nitro tuning and break in methods, because your/his method of break in is likely what caused the engine issues, unless Losi screwed up really bad and you got some random fluke, this kind of issue with their engines is almost unheard of, and I don't even like Losi, but I am going to lean in their favor on this one and still say that this is operator error, as in a terrible break in method and a bad tune. So no, you did not do everything right.

And crank bearings don't just randomly lock up/fail unless you had an insanely lean tune causing the engines to run very hot and starve the bearings of fuel (oil). There is operator error somewhere in this whole issue, these kind of things really don't "just happen" unless you have a terrible tune.

Not trying to be rude, but again, the only way an engine fails on break in is if its got some major factory defect, which this doesn't seem like since they did run enough to get through your excessively long break in, or if you do not tune it right, get into the throttle right away, do an improper break in in general, or don't break it in at all. This to me sounds like they weren't tuned right and you did an improper break in, experienced nitro friend there to help or not.


Again folks, the cars in question here are LOSI cars, I'll say it since he wont. Losi 8ight-B 2.0 RTR and Losi 8ight-T 2.0 RTR.

 

[NitroRC4Life]

The servos that come on the cars you bought are actually known for going very quick thats why many people buy better ones as soon as they get the truck. The engines that blew though, I'm sorry to say, might have been your fault for not breaking in properly.