Motor comparison question.

[KnowAir]

I'm not looking to race, just bash, so, race rules wont apply to me. I changed this all up though. I was gonna sell the TEN-SCTE, and find another 4WD, but, decided instead to keep the TEN-SCTE, trade the 4274 i have for either a 3652SL, or 3656, and run it on 2S, but, before i do any of that, now I'm on a hunt for what HW waterproof ESC will work with the 3656 4700KV i already have, since, today, in a Slash 4X4, a 2S 5200MAH 50C battery lasted all of maybe 10 minutes, and the XeRun SCT Pro ESC i have was almost 200 degrees F, so, I'm figuring the ESC, since the caps are rusty, is getting ready to die on me, and, stupidly, i sold both of the WP-SC8's i had, because i figured i would never use them.

What's your budget? I bought a max 10 sct 120a from ebay last year from this seller. Been great for me. I had planned on running 4s, so I got the 120a. Turns out 3s is plenty for me in my sct410.3.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2332721266.../S6Fw5kV4OVaF1I2QnIBiYKR/u|tkp:Bk9SR97k6o6JYg

 

[bill_delong]

I seemed to recall 5.8 lbs being the max, but evidently I'm mistaken and there isn't one. Been awhile since I looked at SCT stuff, never really cared for them.

But in that vein, yeah, running a 6.5+ lb rig on ROAR-legal 2S power ain't gonna win squat when everybody else is 2 lbs lighter. Unless I guess one were to get a big mAh 2S and figure out how to keep things cool being geared to the moon or with a high KV motor under that load.

All good man... though I have found that having extra weight tends to drastically improve durability with 1/8 based designs.

I agree that lighter more nimble 1/10 designs are going to be better suited for smaller 1/10 indoor tracks, but they will suffer with parachuting and durability concerns on 1/8 outdoor tracks with large big air triples.

I've seen the new TEKNO SCT410-SL in action and it's better suited for a squeaky clean driver on the 1/8 tracks, but I agree nothing else on the market can hold a candle to this SCT in the current market in terms of performance.

 

[biggman100]

What's your budget? I bought a max 10 sct 120a from ebay last year from this seller. Been great for me. I had planned on running 4s, so I got the 120a. Turns out 3s is plenty for me in my sct410.3.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/233272126692?hash=item36501a2ce4:g:9bIAAOSwmF1dFQ9n&amdata=enc:AQAIAAAA4CyszCTVDkamcDXPMzhx04RrTx60SosYT2rjQIQ+xlqfGCPUgPGcRyHgRwIgma2V+2O4mO/T38nRzv0VlZoPnGxrnFt3oNondtl0r15eCwdxPIY96nihWlUAlxzWQQNk2j7CfuvoupI+A41uxuEyz3NThA2QBIS/hgtwWqlA+oBo7yPo3QDD5PKCvqGED1fMqyll2QGBKIVAq6YdZa5PcForQCW35C8Sn9V775Fs/nfVsaejPsjXxWC9/X5LiBHMD2VbbNts5bo75BPk06/S6Fw5kV4OVaF1I2QnIBiYKR/u|tkp:Bk9SR97k6o6JYg

I'm looking at the WP-SC8: https://www.ebay.com/itm/295560250808 I am staying strictly with 2S, so that should be way more than what i need.

 

[Sixtysixdeuce]

I agree that lighter more nimble 1/10 designs are going to be better suited for smaller 1/10 indoor tracks,

And they still seem like clumsy things to me. MHOR raceway is our local 1/10 Track. It's clay, and it's tight and technical. I tried the Prolite and SC10, they simply were not agile like my 2wd buggies and stadium trucks. Despite 4WD in the SCTs, I had no trouble putting down significantly faster times with my graphite chassis original RC10, RC10T and RC10T2.

I tried to like them, I really did. But they're just not for me. 1/10 2WD buggies and STs for racing, 1/8 and 1/5 4WDs for playing/bashing out here in the sticks.

I did try to run my Tamiya 801xt on the MHOR 1/10 track when nobody else was around. That was interesting, but pointless, and put the plexiglass in jeopardy.

 

[biggman100]

What's your budget? I bought a max 10 sct 120a from ebay last year from this seller. Been great for me. I had planned on running 4s, so I got the 120a. Turns out 3s is plenty for me in my sct410.3.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/233272126692?hash=item36501a2ce4:g:9bIAAOSwmF1dFQ9n&amdata=enc:AQAIAAAA4CyszCTVDkamcDXPMzhx04RrTx60SosYT2rjQIQ+xlqfGCPUgPGcRyHgRwIgma2V+2O4mO/T38nRzv0VlZoPnGxrnFt3oNondtl0r15eCwdxPIY96nihWlUAlxzWQQNk2j7CfuvoupI+A41uxuEyz3NThA2QBIS/hgtwWqlA+oBo7yPo3QDD5PKCvqGED1fMqyll2QGBKIVAq6YdZa5PcForQCW35C8Sn9V775Fs/nfVsaejPsjXxWC9/X5LiBHMD2VbbNts5bo75BPk06/S6Fw5kV4OVaF1I2QnIBiYKR/u|tkp:Bk9SR97k6o6JYg

After comparing the 2 different Max10's and the WP-SC8, ill probably just get the 120A Max10 SCT for the Slash 4X4, and the WP-SC8 for my Losi TEN-SCTE, even though that is also only going to be ran on 2S, but, that entirely depends on how the Max10 does in my Slash, since the Losi is a long term summer project anyway.

 

[KnowAir]

After comparing the 2 different Max10's and the WP-SC8, ill probably just get the 120A Max10 SCT for the Slash 4X4, and the WP-SC8 for my Losi TEN-SCTE, even though that is also only going to be ran on 2S, but, that entirely depends on how the Max10 does in my Slash, since the Losi is a long term summer project anyway.

Either one should be fine, I believe the max 10 is slightly smaller dimensionally speaking.. good if you're working with a "tight chassis"

I use an old Redcat rtr SC8 80a in an Xray electric converted XB8 1/8 buggy on 4s.. darned esc is 13 years old!! Even has the original fan in it still! It's like a darned Timex, only better!!

 

[Riteheer]

Ok, sounds like there are some knowledgeable junkies in here, so I hope this is a good place to post my ignorance, instead of creating a whole new thread....
Ok disclaimer, I'm a total newb, so the ignorance is just me trying to understand.
Currently I'm running the Tekno SCT410SL with HW 3660 4300kv and HW SR8 SCT esc. Problem is for a noob this car is way to sensitive to my liking. I was advised to drop to a 540 size motor, like the 3652 in 5100kv.
I'm hoping to get some input on this, as well as any suggestions others might have.
Some difficulty I'm dealing with, when the truck loses grip in a curve and I let up and get control and the punch back on it, I get a jumping donut machine, it won't stay on the ground long enough for me to get a grip. I know this partially my driving style, and I'm still formulating this, but I just feel it has way too much torgue for me to learn on. Like learning to drive in a supercar.
Also, I would like to know how to tell what motors I can run with the current ESC?

 

[Lumikko]

Ok, sounds like there are some knowledgeable junkies in here, so I hope this is a good place to post my ignorance, instead of creating a whole new thread....
Ok disclaimer, I'm a total newb, so the ignorance is just me trying to understand.
Currently I'm running the Tekno SCT410SL with HW 3660 4300kv and HW SR8 SCT esc. Problem is for a noob this car is way to sensitive to my liking. I was advised to drop to a 540 size motor, like the 3652 in 5100kv.
I'm hoping to get some input on this, as well as any suggestions others might have.
Some difficulty I'm dealing with, when the truck loses grip in a curve and I let up and get control and the punch back on it, I get a jumping donut machine, it won't stay on the ground long enough for me to get a grip. I know this partially my driving style, and I'm still formulating this, but I just feel it has way too much torgue for me to learn on. Like learning to drive in a supercar.
Also, I would like to know how to tell what motors I can run with the current ESC?

You don’t need to buy anything. Just dial down the throttle EPA on the tx if the top speed is too much for you, or throttle speed if it accelerates too aggressively. You can also reduce the punch in the ESC or simply run it in blinky mode if you have some sort of modified race presets on it at the moment.

 

[bill_delong]

Ok, sounds like there are some knowledgeable junkies in here, so I hope this is a good place to post my ignorance, instead of creating a whole new thread....
Ok disclaimer, I'm a total newb, so the ignorance is just me trying to understand.
Currently I'm running the Tekno SCT410SL with HW 3660 4300kv and HW SR8 SCT esc. Problem is for a noob this car is way to sensitive to my liking. I was advised to drop to a 540 size motor, like the 3652 in 5100kv.
I'm hoping to get some input on this, as well as any suggestions others might have.
Some difficulty I'm dealing with, when the truck loses grip in a curve and I let up and get control and the punch back on it, I get a jumping donut machine, it won't stay on the ground long enough for me to get a grip. I know this partially my driving style, and I'm still formulating this, but I just feel it has way too much torgue for me to learn on. Like learning to drive in a supercar.
Also, I would like to know how to tell what motors I can run with the current ESC?

You don’t need to buy anything. Just dial down the throttle EPA on the tx if the top speed is too much for you, or throttle speed if it accelerates too aggressively. You can also reduce the punch in the ESC or simply run it in blinky mode if you have some sort of modified race presets on it at the moment.

+1

I would try the following order of tuning adjustments doing only 1 at a time until it's resolved:

1) Reduce the punch on the ESC
2) Reduce throttle speed on the Radio
3) Reduce EPA only if you don't have proper throttle control
4) Avoid using expo at all costs, this will create more problems

Going with a 3652 can will reduce your torque/acceleration because the smaller motor will have a reduced rotor with less magnet mass though there are no recommendations in the manual for a 540 motor.

Selecting a proper KV rating is a whole other thing which is a variable based on track size and pinion selection, here's a screen shot from the manual :

 

[Lumikko]

4) Avoid using expo at all costs, this will create more problems

I’m curious what problems this could cause? I have used expo to tone down my throttle and have heard others do the same with good success.

In a way, negative expo makes the throttle feel more linear because the motors have so much torque at the lower rpms.

 

[Riteheer]

+1

I would try the following order of tuning adjustments doing only 1 at a time until it's resolved:

1) Reduce the punch on the ESC
2) Reduce throttle speed on the Radio
3) Reduce EPA only if you don't have proper throttle control
4) Avoid using expo at all costs, this will create more problems

Going with a 3652 can will reduce your torque/acceleration because the smaller motor will have a reduced rotor with less magnet mass though there are no recommendations in the manual for a 540 motor.

Selecting a proper KV rating is a whole other thing which is a variable based on track size and pinion selection, here's a screen shot from the manual :
View attachment 175765

Bill, I do appreciate the recommendations for adjustments and will work thru them, but for clarity sake for anyone who may stumble on to this post in the future, I'm not sure where you got that screenshot, but it is not in either copy of the SCT410SL manual I have, one of which I downloaded from I believe Tekno's site, and the other which came with my truck when I built it. Both of these show:

 

[bill_delong]

My bad, I pulled the screenshot from the SCT410 2.0 manual, thanks for the correction!

As far as expo goes, I used to use it ALL the time, but would tend to run into snap oversteer issues not realizing that expo was causing that problem. It wasn't until a pro level driver was helping me with my setup one day, he test drove my car and he took the expo out and sure enough my snap oversteer issue went away immediately on a problematic corner-exit.

What would happen is that expo will compound the amount of throttle applied where you think you're getting smoother control at less than 50% throttle, but as you apply throttle above 50% then all hell breaks loose... or should I say the rear end breaks loose

Throttle speed works much better because the delay is linear so it softens the throttle in similar fashion to expo, but without compromising the snap oversteer effect

 

[Lumikko]

As far as expo goes, I used to use it ALL the time, but would tend to run into snap oversteer issues not realizing that expo was causing that problem. It wasn't until a pro level driver was helping me with my setup one day, he test drove my car and he took the expo out and sure enough my snap oversteer issue went away immediately on a problematic corner-exit.

What would happen is that expo will compound the amount of throttle applied where you think you're getting smoother control at less than 50% throttle, but as you apply throttle above 50% then all hell breaks loose... or should I say the rear end breaks loose

Throttle speed works much better because the delay is linear so it softens the throttle in similar fashion to expo, but without compromising the snap oversteer effect

Makes sense. You do pay for the easier modulation at the low end with a requirement for more precise modulation at the top end.

I wonder if moving the expo point would have helped, or just reducing overall expo a bit, but it does depend on the driver and car for sure. So a blanket statement like ”negative expo is easier to drive” is untrue.

The reason I prefer expo over speed reduction is that the speed is still available in case you need to save a nosedive mid-air or something. My car and the track I usually drive on allows me to pretty much floor it after a smooth start of the acceleration: I run a mild punch and there’s lots of grip.

 

[bill_delong]

Let me clarify that throttle speed and EPA are completely different things... EPA will reduce the overall top speed and throttle speed will delay the amount of time it takes for the throttle hit your desired top speed.

There is no sacrifice in reducing throttle speed, it will make the car feel like it has more grip and then when traction is up you can turn up the throttle speed.

Expo was introduced first in early computer radio systems and that feature was replaced with throttle speed adjustment, unfortunately most brands have decided to keep expo for marketing purpose even though it's no longer desired.

I will not buy a radio without throttle/steering speed tuning.

 

[Lumikko]

Let me clarify that throttle speed and EPA are completely different things... EPA will reduce the overall top speed and throttle speed will delay the amount of time it takes for the throttle hit your desired top speed.

There is no sacrifice in reducing throttle speed, it will make the car feel like it has more grip and then when traction is up you can turn up the throttle speed.

Expo was introduced first in early computer radio systems and that feature was replaced with throttle speed adjustment, unfortunately most brands have decided to keep expo for marketing purpose even though it's no longer desired.

We’re defo talking about the same things with the correct terms but it’s good to make sure we are clear.

My first radio with expo was a 40MHz Futaba 3PDF in the late ’90s.

The radio I currently use is the Sanwa MT-R and I do differentiate between EPA, expo, and throttle speed. (Sadly, there’s no setting for braking speed on this radio.)

I understand throttle speed exactly as you describe: if you floor the trigger as fast as your finger moves the reduced throttle speed smooths it out. I very much like this kind of setting because it actually saves energy instead of dumping it into the motor and causing wear on the slipper or tires. When you make smooth throttle inputs the setting is inactive.

The problem I describe is probably hypothetical but in some cases you might want to rev up as fast as possible to save a landing on the nose for example. Reduced throttle speed would affect stunts like this but it isn’t something I have experienced.

In my case, jerking the trigger isn’t an issue but I like to have a bit smaller throttle inputs per initial movement of the trigger. It helps me hit the exactly correct amount of throttle at low speeds. A bit of negative expo achieves this. The downside is that the throttle input per trigger movement becomes larger towards the full throttle position. If I understood correctly, this increased the risk of too much throttle and spinning out in your case. This hasn’t been a problem for me at least for now.

I’ve actually used EPA to cap the top speed as well since I’m not a highly skilled driver and my opportunities to hit the track are limited.