Guangdong Hengguang Clone of Tamiya F-350 High Lift — Any Thoughts? AND Possible Install if Bearing Kit

[Out4lox]

I’ve ordered an HG clone of the Tamiya F-350 Hi Lift. About $270 shipped. You can find them reviewed on YouTube. The Internet seems to conclude that it is a solid clone of the Tamiya product. Does anybody hr happen to have one? If so, any comments and suggestions would be great.

Apparently, this truck is bereft of bearings, and full of bushings. My understanding is this is the case both in the HG clone, and in the original. That sounds cheesy to me, and I was seriously contemplating getting a set of Yeah Racing bearings for this truck, which is my first new RC in many many years! I’m excited.

So I have two questions on this: First, is it actually, significantly beneficial install these bearings? It is not much of a financial commitment, being under $30. I therefore imagine the answer to this first question is, yes. So I guess my real question is, as I have never done this, is installing all these bearings almost like rebuilding the truck? Worse? Taking it all apart, putting it all back together? A serious amount of work, then? I think that is the only thing that might hold me back.

On another note, I was thinking of putting in an RC Screwz stainless steel screw kit on this RTR. It is kind of a habit with me. I don’t necessarily install every last screw. And I would just be curious to see what you all think of these screw kits, and whether they are, indeed, worthwhile.

Lol, I think sone of you might be thinking, “this is an RTR. Dogma dictates that one first replace the Steering Servo! And THEN, the Motor/ESC. And only AFTER that, muck about with shiny screws and bearings.” Something like that. But, I figured I’d take a wait and see stance on the Motor/Esc, and even the Steering Servo. Having said all that, however, I’d welcome any input on a proper Servo and Drive setup for this rig ….

As always, thank you kindly! People here are very helpful.

 

[WickedFog]

I have a clone of the Tamiya Bruiser - the HG P407. It's a decent truck, but the leaf springs in the front broke after 5 minutes of driving.

 

[Greywolf74]

I would say that its definitely worth while to replace bushings with bearings but how much of a tear down that would be I can't say as I dont know how widespread the use of bushings is on that kit since I dont own it.

As for stainless screws, I dont personally like stainless steel on RCs. Its a softer metal than the normal black oxide steel screws that are normally used. That being said, Stainless screws on that particular kit wouldnt be a problem since its more of a scale truck than it is a basher.

 

[Out4lox]

I have a clone of the Tamiya Bruiser - the HG P407. It's a decent truck, but the leaf springs in the front broke after 5 minutes of driving.

I was going to “like” your post, but that seemed wrong. So , I’m sorry to hear about the leaf springs, for you and possibly me! Thanks for the info.

I would say that its definitely worth while to replace bushings with bearings but how much of a tear down that would be I can't say as I dont know how widespread the use of bushings is on that kit since I dont own it.

As for stainless screws, I dont personally like stainless steel on RCs. It’s a softer metal than the normal black oxide steel screws that are normally used. That being said, Stainless screws on that particular kit wouldnt be a problem since its more of a scale truck than it is a basher.

Ok Graywolf, given your limitless credibility with me, I’ll skip the screws. I perhaps naively thought stainless just meant, well, “better”: non magnetic, rustproof AND tougher …. Did not know.

 

[Greywolf74]

I was going to “like” your post, but that seemed wrong. So , I’m sorry to hear about the leaf springs, for you and possibly me! Thanks for the info.

Ok Graywolf, given your limitless credibility with me, I’ll skip the screws. I perhaps naively thought stainless just meant, well, “better”: non magnetic, rustproof AND tougher …. Did not know.

Well, they are non-magnetic but for me thats a down-side. They are rust-proof so that is an upside but as previously mentioned not a tough as the black oxide screws. Again though, On that particular kit would would be strong enough cuz its not a hard core basher so in this case Id really just say its a matter of personal preference.

 

[WickedFog]

Stainless is corrosion resistant, but not corrosion proof. Any contact with aluminum by any other metal will cause corrosion at the joint, even if it's a stainless screw in an aluminum plate. A rusted steel screw is far easier to remove than a corroded stainless screw.

And stainless is far softer than hardened steel hardware, so it is much easier to strip the hex heads out on them. You better have good tools when working with stainless screws. So because of that, stainless is inferior to steel. In my opinion, stainless hardware is only useful in the medical or food industry. It has no place in anything mechanical because it is just such a soft metal.

I do have kits I use stainless screws on, but only if I don't have the steel hardware on hand. But I am mindful of how weak that hardware is when installing it, or working on a kit with stainless hardware.

The Chinese love to use stainless steel hardware in everything. They just haven't learned yet that it's not better.

 

[Chubaka]

I was going to “like” your post, but that seemed wrong. So , I’m sorry to hear about the leaf springs, for you and possibly me! Thanks for the info.

Ok Graywolf, given your limitless credibility with me, I’ll skip the screws. I perhaps naively thought stainless just meant, well, “better”: non magnetic, rustproof AND tougher …. Did not know.

Smart choice on the stainless. Didn't last one year on my 10.2, lots of rounded hexes.

 

[Out4lox]

Stainless is corrosion resistant, but not corrosion proof. Any contact with aluminum by any other metal will cause corrosion at the joint, even if it's a stainless screw in an aluminum plate. A rusted steel screw is far easier to remove than a corroded stainless screw.

And stainless is far softer than hardened steel hardware, so it is much easier to strip the hex heads out on them. You better have good tools when working with stainless screws. So because of that, stainless is inferior to steel. In my opinion, stainless hardware is only useful in the medical or food industry. It has no place in anything mechanical because it is just such a soft metal.

I do have kits I use stainless screws on, but only if I don't have the steel hardware on hand. But I am mindful of how weak that hardware is when installing it, or working on a kit with stainless hardware.

The Chinese love to use stainless steel hardware in everything. They just haven't learned yet that it's not better.

Ok, thanks as always for the helpful info. I was certainty operating for decades under the wrong impression. But, I STILL DO think the shinier screws are prettier. (They say Barracudas are the same way about that, which might be useful to know while diving.). As for the tools I use, I have the good, bad and the ugly. Some MIP. Some Integy. And so forth. Which is to say, some internet approved, some others, no.

 

[WickedFog]

Yeah, if you prefer the bling of shiny screws, stainless is always an option.

 

[Out4lox]

Yes, bottom line, the reason I bought the truck in the first place is … mostly looks. After all, I don’t expect it to have state of the art crawler performance! But it looks great to me and I always wanted one.

 

[Out4lox]

Here it is—see the photos below if interested. It all looks very good yo me. I get no off-brand vibe or feel from this rig. Not at all. Incidentally, while everyone refers to this RC as a “clone,” I doubt that’s entirely accurate. I don’t think some third party came in and reverse engineered this truck. No way. Rather, I strongly suspect this HG outfit was the one making these trucks for Tamiya, their OEM, and they then just went off and started selling them under their own name. For cheap. I got this truck for under $280, shipped. Simply, I just don’t believe it could be profitable for some total stranger, a third party, to come along, reverse engine and sell cheap an exact copy of this RC.

I’d be interested to know any thoughts on this. I have no idea, by the way, how come nobody has ever heard anything from Tamiya on this. Could HG perhaps have their permission? Who knows, maybe HG paid a license fee to Tamiya.

 

[WickedFog]

Great looking truck! I wonder how much of it is completely compatible with Tamiya parts. I am betting a LOT.

As for HG reverse engineering... they did exactly that with the HG P407 Bruiser clone. They did such a good job that even the body parts from the Bruiser fit the P407. So I would bet money the same is true of this one. The Chinese have absolutely zero problem stealing someone else's design. They don't even have laws to prevent it from happening as far as I know.

The only real differences between the HG P407 and the Bruiser is the transmission and differentials. There may be a couple others, but that is all I know of. Tamiya uses splined axles, while the P407 just has two flats on the axles. So HG went a lot cheaper on their manufacturing of the axles than Tamiya did. Splining a shaft is a much more tedious, more expensive process than just milling a couple flats on a shaft.

Reverse engineering is soooo easy now that 3d scanners are being used in so many shops. You would be blown away to see how accurstely they can recreate a 3d model, just by waving a wand over the part you are trying to copy. Far more accurate than a 2d scanner can copy a page of notebook paper. The 3d scanner we used in the last Aerospace shop I was at was accurate to within .0001". So for them to reverse engineer the body would take an experienced engineer every bit of about 15 minutes. They are that good.

For what I paid for our P407 (like $215), even though it broke within 10 minutes of driving, it is a pretty darned awesome rig. I'd never pay the $1000+ that Tamiya demands for the Bruiser, especially with such a good clone out there.

Sorry to ramble. Just thought you might find that info interesting. Clone or not, that's a good looking truck!

 

[Out4lox]

That’s funny. You certainly did not ramble. Lol, indeed I found you entirely focused, fwiw.

The truck runs well, smoother and quieter than some on YouTube. Really nice. There’s not a whiff of any pirated, junky feel. Zero.

So you don’t necessarily agree with my theory that HG was Tamiya’s OEM, who might have gone off the reservation, as it were. Well, my thinking on the difficulty involved in reverse engineering one of these rigs, from scratch, is certainly far less informed than yours. I just thought “too hard,” gotta be the OEM acting on its own. But hey, it’s obvious to me you know more about this than I do.

So … you think this HG outfit could just be a stranger who just grabbed a kit — or however they do it — and reverse engineered the entire thing? I would have found that implausible, except you definitely are way over my head in knowing what’s involved in doing that. It still just sounds weird to me, even as I well know I’m less informed on this stuff.

 

[WickedFog]

That’s funny. You certainly did not ramble. Lol, indeed I found you entirely focused, fwiw.

The truck runs well, smoother and quieter than some on YouTube. Really nice. There’s not a whiff of any pirated, junky feel. Zero.

So you don’t necessarily agree with my theory that HG was Tamiya’s OEM, who might have gone off the reservation, as it were. Well, my thinking on the difficulty involved in reverse engineering one of these rigs, from scratch, is certainly far less informed than yours. I just thought “too hard,” gotta be the OEM acting on its own. But hey, it’s obvious to me you know more about this than I do.

So … you think this HG outfit could just be a stranger who just grabbed a kit — or however they do it — and reverse engineered the entire thing? I would have found that implausible, except you definitely are way over my head in knowing what’s involved in doing that. It still just sounds weird to me, even as I well know I’m less informed on this stuff.

The main reasons I don't believe HG is the OEM is because on some of the P407 bodies, the lower edges of the bed are slightly warped, and sucked inward, due to them pulling the body from the molds a bit too early. Something Tamiya would not tolerate.

There is a bit lower quality look and feel to the HG stuff vs the actual Bruisers I have seen as well. The Tamiya metal parts just have that slightly nicer look and feel to them, due to a bit better manufacturing processes, better metal, better casting process, etc. Something the Japanese have done well for years, and China is just now starting to try improving.

So no, I am almost positive that HG reverse engineered the truck and I am pretty confident they never were a manufacturer for Tamiya. They did a pretty darned good job of it too, because when the P407 came out just above $200 for it, Tamiya slashed the price of the Bruiser for a bit by around $350 if I remember correctly.

Although, another thought I had, since nearly everyone sends their manufacturing to China these days...

Lets say Tamiya was looking for some other manufacturer, and sent the 3d models to a CNC machine shop in China to be made. That machine shop had a young man there that knew exactly what he was looking at... models of the Tamiya Bruiser. Bam... that's how a lot of clones are popping up from American made vape mods, RC stuff, you name it.

But the fact that it looks like they did a good job with this one as well leads me towards reverse engineered. Tamiya was really, really ticked off when the P407 came out. It's highly unlikely they would make the same mistake twice.

 

[WickedFog]

Oh, as for the bearings... I meant to comment on this in my first post, but somehow spaced it...

Me personally, I would steer clear of anything Yeah Racing makes. It might cause you a bit of downtime with the truck, but I would tear it completely apart, measure all the bearings, and just order some sealed bearings off of Amazon or Ebay. Or does Yeah Racing give the sizes for the bearings in the kit?

Or another option is there is a seller on ebay named "winter_evening". He is out of Alaska. I buy all my bearing kits from him, and they are good bearings. You might see if he has the bearings for your kit. If not, he may cut you a deal on a set if you gave him all the specific sizes for the complete kit, that way he can start selling them.

 

[Out4lox]

Last thing first, I’m debating the bearings as this truck might see very little actual use. I kind of bought it to admire; I always wanted one. But thanks for the info on that!

I did not know before of any reaction by Tamiya to these HG products. Anyway, you’ve obviously taken a much deeper dive into this issue than I could. I wouldn’t feel remotely equipped to debate you if I wanted to, lol. I’m plenty smart enough to know that. I suppose I just liked thinking I was getting the truck from the OEM. Same truck, great price. But you do present as extremely credible, and with knowledge I simply don’t have …. That sucks though, if that HG company can do this so utterly brazenly.

 

[WickedFog]

It happens in China a lot. Don't feel bad. The HG trucks are actually pretty decent. The Tamiya stuff in my opinion is way, way overpriced. So I don't feel a bit bad for them. HG is one of the better Chinese RC companies. Their tanks is where they made their name I believe. They have quite a few RC tanks I'd love to get my hands on.

 

[Out4lox]

Yes tanks and other military vehicles and they’re not cheap. I saw. Integy (I know, the purveyor of soft aluminum) sells them, incidentally. I believe their prices MIGHT be competitive with Ali Baba et al., when you factor in shipping.