Do You Really Need a Kanai or $800 Buggy to Win?

[ApriliaRacer]

Just wondering, on the LOCAL level, does someone really need a top-of-the-line buggy like the MBX5 or Kanai 2/3 to win races?

It does seem that even at the club level the top drivers, drive top-of-the-line buggies.

Now, I've had a "winning" driver, drive my buggy and turn excellent lap times and I wasn't doing as well driving his buggy.

(Of course I understand that alot of winning is driver ability).

Just wanted to hear if guys on a "smaller budget" but can drive, are winning races with either RTRs, older buggies, or just something other than one of those buggies that are like 800 bucks for a rolling chassis....

 

[CRSMP5]

honestly the hb lightning pro desimated all the kanis and big $ buggies at my track... even new drivers against veterins were giving them run fo rthe money... the lightning out of the box stock even with its underpowered engine will give alot of other buggies a hard time cause it will go where you point it with ease.. they set it up great for a newbie.. and its far from squirrly and jumps nice...

look at teh hb lightning pro thread.. and the pro 2 thread IMO the pro works just fine.. fo rthe additions to the pro 2.. not enough to go with the 400$ increase in price its listed as.. the hb pro can be gotten off the web for 290+shipping and only requires a radio system..

 

[slothy]

nope, we had a guy come to our track with a old mp6 (rb ws7II in it) and took 3rd in "a"

i large chunk is driver skill

 

[kazi]

You don't really need it but it whould help,Kyosho and Mugen still are the best cars and the Kanai3 Sirio engine is a bullet once you are able to tune it. Anyway the most important think is to have a good engine, you will not win a comp with a Kyosho Mp7.5 Sport RTR, because the engine just sucks.

 

[HumboldtBlazer]

I wouldn't think you would need a $800 kit to compete at that level unless that is what everyone else is driving. Got to the local track, see what people got. I would start out with a good mid range kit that has the ability to be upgraded later when your driving get's better.

Originally posted by CRSMP5
honestly the hb lightning pro desimated all the kanis and big $ buggies at my track... even new drivers against veterins were giving them run fo rthe money... the lightning out of the box stock even with its underpowered engine will give alot of other buggies a hard time cause it will go where you point it with ease.. they set it up great for a newbie.. and its far from squirrly and jumps nice...

look at teh hb lightning pro thread.. and the pro 2 thread IMO the pro works just fine.. fo rthe additions to the pro 2.. not enough to go with the 400$ increase in price its listed as.. the hb pro can be gotten off the web for 290+shipping and only requires a radio system..

Dude I swear you always post the EXACT same post always telling people that the HB pro wastes Kani's all day long, just answer the question guy why do you always have to pump up that buggy, it's like you work for them or something. He didn't ask what kit he should get he asked if he needs a Kani to win.

 

[Jeff Cain]

honestly the hb lightning pro desimated all the kanis and big $ buggies at my track... even new drivers against veterins were giving them run fo rthe money... the lightning out of the box stock even with its underpowered engine will give alot of other buggies a hard time cause it will go where you point it with ease.. they set it up great for a newbie.. and its far from squirrly and jumps nice...

look at teh hb lightning pro thread.. and the pro 2 thread IMO the pro works just fine.. fo rthe additions to the pro 2.. not enough to go with the 400$ increase in price its listed as.. the hb pro can be gotten off the web for 290+shipping and only requires a radio system..


Reposted just for you, Humboldt! Hee heeee!:LoL:



Aaaaaaaaaaaanyway, it depends on the level of competition. If you and your buddies can wring every last 1/100th of a second out of a buggy, then you'd better get the buggy that best suits your driving style. However, at my local racing venues, we're not THAT good, but the Lightning does regularly beat XTM's, Kanai II's, and Mp 7.5's. Are the Lightnings that superior? Nope, but the drivers realize to maximize performance, tune that chassis to suit your driving styles, not "I've got a K2, therefore I shouldn't have to work at winning. Owning the best buggy is simply enough". Yeah that's an exaggeration of the attitude, but it's ballpark. In summary, the closer the competition, the more crutial buggy choice becomes.

 

[HumboldtBlazer]

You couldn't be more right Jeff Cain, I totally agree with you about driver skill and different buggies fit people better because of the way they drive. When I compare machines in my mind to be able to get a feel for differences you have to cut out the drivers skill variable or it would be debateable all day. Like I said I have no problem with HotBodies or the Lighning Pro why this whole thing started because NoviceRob, who now goes by RobH went and bought the Lightning Pro after only ever having Duratraxx vehicles. He then came on the forum to do a "review" of the buggy and went on and on to tell all of us the the Lightning Pro was so superior. This was all before he ever even DROVE the buggy. So then I called him on that, the part that he had never even driven it let alone driven any other 1/8 scale buggy to compare it to. I just really want to clear that up with everyone once and for all read it, copy it, save it, and back it up, poop even print it: I humboldtblazer do not dislike the Hotbodies Lightning Pro in any way shape or form, It is better than a lot of other buggies out and was a good job at their first buggy. I mean come on I couldn't design a better one myself so wtf?

Here is the thread, the first 5 pages pretty much have the battle between me and EnginemoddinRob. Also Jeff you will notice my batttle with CRSMP5 and I even think that's the thread where he said he was never ever coming back to RCNT because of me.

https://www.rcnitrotalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3771

 

[militarymaxx]

Jeff Cain talks about tuning a car to a drivers needs. What about tuning a car to suit the tracks needs ? I wouldn't bring a car to a fast track that was set up for a track that had lots of turns and lots of jumps and bumps. And just the opposite. So I guess my question is, do I play it safe and use a 'neutral' setup ? I agree completely with setting up the car to what the driver likes. I like soft brakes, drifitng through wide sweeping corners, but when it comes to the tight S's, I struggle, fight the car sometimes just to make it through. Tuning the car to a specific track with the driver in mind might be the biggest challenge yet. I, myself, haven't reached that level yet.

 

[Jeff Cain]

Meaning, how do you corner? Monster truck guys like to use brakes to swing the ass end around, and stock electric guys like to turn controlled smooth and fast. If you want to do it the monster truck way, set your brake bias to the point where the back wheels lock up but the fronts won't at full brakes. Charge hard at the corner, brake and turn at the last second, then throttle out. Stock electric method would be for no lockups, and fine dialing your chassis to handle the way you want it, when you want it to. (and thus, where a more tuneable aka expensive chassis comes into play i.e. an MBX-5 with the pivot ball suspension and a million camber link/shock mounting holes).

These two styles range from brute to finesse, and require a like minded buggy. It's generally accepted that something with less adjustability tends to hold up better (fewer things to go wrong/break if you follow what I'm thinking). The Lightning Pro is good in this case, because there's not a lot of things to go wrong. Can't get it to finess exactly the way you want? Who cares! Brake late, dive inside, swing the ass around and put the wood to it down the next chute. It's a beating, but that kind of rugged simple chassis won't even flinch. If you want to finess, then you get a Mugen, dial that bitch in like a swiss watch, then wait for the "late brake" guy to brake just a little too late and overshoot the corner, carve inside him like a surgeon, then quickly roll onto the throttle while simultaneously return the steering back to center and gracefully accelerate towards setting up the next corner.

As far as cost, R&D and machining cost money. Pure and simple. And as the saying goes "poop rolls downhill". A better designed/more complex buggy cost more for the company to design/make, therefore distributors have to pay more, therefore hobby shops have to pay more, therefore YOU have to pay more.

So back to the question. Some people may not be faster with a more complex/expensive buggy. Some people may be slower with a simpler/cheaper buggy. It all depends on your driving style.

Personally, I wouldn't be faster with a more complex buggy. I love my Lightning Pro because it has quality parts, it's durable as hell, and the chassis is plenty tunable to get it to do what I need it to do. Granted it's just club racing, but in its short 6 week end of season run I got two 2nd quals, 4 TQ's, and finished once in 3rd, two 2nds, and three 1sts.

 

[RobH]

EnginemoddinRob... that's funny poop.

Let me point out that HB doesn't have any Lightning Pro buggys at his track. He doesn't know what the fiddlesticks he's talking about and his BS comes only out of his ignorance and pride.

He'll never change and no one here will correct him. The simple solution is just to ignore him. It's really no loss because I count exactly 0 times that he's typed anything that's worth reading.

 

[CRSMP5]

humboldtblazer i still think your a fucken ass hole.. that has not changed.. and the only time i post on thsi forum is for hb people... i railry even post in the savage section it is hb and hb only.. you rstill a fucken ass hole.. that will never change.. ill keep reposting this when i see its deleted.. cause i dont really fucken care...

 

[HumboldtBlazer]

Blah, I could start this back up and own both of you, but your the ones with HotBodies buggies, poop I got an X5 losers!:n00bie:

 

[slothy]

This is funny shait on this board, everyone is like my buggy is better then yours, my dad can beat yours up blah blah. You never hear this at the track (other then I'm kicking your arse for knocking off me the track)... : stickup:


Entertainment!!! fo sure

 

[Çh®i§tiªñ]

What the hell man!

Can you guys just get along?!?!?

Bottom line, you can and will do better if you buy better equipment. A lot of money, time and engineering go into building the most badass buggy they can build. Thus, the result is a design of all that R&D which is where the price tag comes in. You are paying for the R&D, NOT just the name.

Its like taking an entry level 1:1 race car and a Pro Modified. Whos going to win?!?!? Yeah yeah, driver is the 'other' 50% of the equation, but if you take the best driver and give him a half ass car then there is only so much he can do behind the wheel.

No doubt, if the drivers at your track are mediocre at best, and they all have high $ and high performance buggies, but you are the best driver, then absolutely, you have a good chance of beating them.

But just think, if you have a top of the line, well engineered, lightened, perfectly balanced, balls to the wall mill and everything inbetween, then you would smoke them every time.

Its a 50/50 split though. 50% driver, 50% car. Now you can do the math.

And certainly there are people who could beat a Kanai 3 or MBX5 with a HotBodies buggy, but thats the 50% driver factor coming into play. That same driver would whoop the HB's ass if driving the Kanai or MBX5.

Does that sound rational?!?!?!?

Now knock the bullshit off and get back to the subject at hand!

WTF!

 

[slothy]

Pick me pick me - id say its more 80-85.2536% driver.... smoothness and consistency. -

 

[HumboldtBlazer]

Your right C, I just wanted to clear up the misconceptions about my opinions with Jeff Cain and it worked, I think he understands where I am coming from. As for NoviceRob and CRSM5 we have been through it all before and no use doing it again. If you do feel froggish though you can leap on down to the FFA and I will meet you there tonight when I have internet access again, well until then boys!

 

[RobH]

Originally posted by humboldtblazer
If you do feel froggish though you can leap on down to the FFA and I will meet you there tonight when I have internet access again, well until then boys!

I hope everyone realizes this is his motivation. "It's not entertaining enough to just talk about RC. That boring. So lets start poop and flame one another. That's a poop load of fun!"

There must be a more friendly way to have fun. I'm putting him back on ignore...

 

[Jeff Cain]

Originally posted by RobH
He'll never change and no one here will correct him. The simple solution is just to ignore him. It's really no loss because I count exactly 0 times that he's typed anything that's worth reading.

In the following thread https://www.rcnitrotalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3771 he posted:

Congrats on your buggy purchase!

and

It says in his post that he bought the Lightning pro.

and

my bad! Looks like I got hooked on Chronic and not hooked on phonics.

and

Good by DuraTrash hello fun! Congrats man.

and

before you get way ahead of yourself have you even ran it? Have you ever ran another buggy to comarpe it too? I am glad you like it and not trying to slam you but before you go endorsing it take it to a track. Let us know how fast slow the turning was, if it had under or oversteer. How easy is the engine to start? Is it easy to tune and can it keep a tune for a 15 minute main? Let us know how it handels jumps and how is its center of gravity and chasis roll? See these are all things that buggy people care about. A beatiful buggy is really nice to look at but how does it perform I am really interested?

and so on.

Doesn't seem so bad now, does he?

And Humboldt, what the heck is FFA? Future Farmers of America? www.ffa.org That would explain why you're a good racer, the man knows his dirt, folks! LOL

 

[HumboldtBlazer]

RobH it's been really great with the silence between us, I implore to cease and desist, this battle get's us no where. Keep it up if you want as you know I am able but you couldn't be more wrong, I would rather just bs about RC's.

 

[Jeff Cain]

Of course if you don't bother with chassis setup, brake bias, clutch tuning, engine tuning, powerful engine, strong fast servo's, right exhaust, or the right tires you'll never see the full potential of that $800 buggy. If you're on a budget, maybe you get a Lightning Pro, kick ass running gear, and upgrade to a better buggy later. Or maybe a MBX-5 and go for top of the line components next year. Radio gear and engine will usually be more expensive than the chassis itself ($300 engine, $100 exhaust, $250 in servos, radio and rx pack $250 ish, $100 starter box=$1000) Add on $200 in tires if you want to hook up worth a damn.

Either way, you may very well need to invest over $1k to be halfway competitive.

This is not the class to race if you want to race for cheap. Period.