Let’s talk about Allen wrenches

Welcome to RCTalk

Come join other RC enthusiasts! You'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Iowa crawler

Hardcore RCTalk User
Build Thread Contributor
Messages
1,463
Reaction score
2,536
Location
Iowa
RC Driving Style
  1. Racing
  2. Crawling
  3. Scale Builder
  4. Flying
Let’s talk about Allen wrenches.

You can’t really have an RC anything with out Allen wrenches. Except Tamiya with there special slot shape Phillips head. And we can talk about that too.

So there are questions that I have had or have. So I thought I would start a thread.

What do you like?
What don’t you like ?
Who makes the best sets? Can they provide replacement blades?
Can you use a grinder and reshape the tip so they can be used after there damaged?
When do you replace the tips?

And then there is the Allen bolts themselves.

Where do you get them?
How do you sort and store them?
Are stainless better than black steel.
Is titanium worth the price?

This is what I have and use. The lone bit on the right is a worn down 1.5 mm driver. It’s sharpened to a point and heat treated. Makes a perfect tool for marking scratching or lining up holes.
 

Attachments

  • 5C75D849-78D7-4C6A-8321-E66CC75AC840.jpeg
    5C75D849-78D7-4C6A-8321-E66CC75AC840.jpeg
    290.3 KB · Views: 85
  • 35115B80-DD4E-4150-94CC-731165958123.jpeg
    35115B80-DD4E-4150-94CC-731165958123.jpeg
    250 KB · Views: 55
MIP hands down is the best set I own! Been using them well over a year with no issues and very happy with them.
Definitely.
They are worth the money.
What about the hand drivers? Do they make them or do you use the bits in a hand held driver handle?
 
I go over all this stuff in this thread...

'Tips and Tools for Removing Stubborn Fasteners' https://www.rctalk.com/forum/threads/tips-and-tools-for-removing-stubborn-fasteners.131281/

As stated in that post, I worked as a machinist/programmer/engineer for over 25 years, mostly in the racing and aerospace industries. I don't have the MIP tools, but I am sure they are nice. I use tools that I used daily on stubborn fasteners. Wera, Wiha, Ecklind, Bondhus, etc all make great allen drivers.

As for screws, you won't find any better than McMaster-Carr fasteners. They are the industry standard and they hold up to hundreds of installs and removals. Fastenal is a close second. Stainless screws - not so much. I avoid them when I can. Stainless is a soft metal.

Titanium is strong, but a springy metal. If you have a fastener that is stuck do to corrosion, loctite, etc, they will stretch when trying to remove them, basically tightening themselves in the hole as you turn the wrench.

If you want my advice, stick to grade 8 black oxide steel fasteners.
 
What do you like?
Rolled Spring steel with precsion ground tips. When I first got in to the hobby I went through quite a few sets of wrenches because unfortunately they were all crappy die cast wrenches. Sure some of them tried using a different material for the tip or TiNi coating etc but in the end those were very minor improvements if at all. It wouldnt take maybe two to three months of wrenching before the tips would start to round off which Id noticed when my allen head screws were start to get tore up. Soon as I saw that happening Id check my tips and sure enough.... Just some of the sets I can remember running through were OFNA, Rubber handled Dynamite, Metal Handled Dynamite, Losi 8 in 1 (7 in 1? Something like that), Integy, Align, and there was some no name brand crap I bought off of eBay once.

Then I discovered Hudy. Hudy was where I first leaned about rolled spring steel with ground tips but Hudy is like the Snap-On of the RC word. Everyone that I came across in various forums that had or had used Hudy all swore by them so I decided to try them out. Well needless to say I was shocked when I realized they were damn near $20 per wrench but I was tired of stripping screws and replacing wrenches so I decided to buy the two main sizes I used the most and give them a try. After about 6-8 months or so I was convinced that they were superior to all the others I had tried so I wanted more of them but back then my RC budget was a hell of a lot tighter than it is these days so after doing a little digging I found another company that made wrenches with rolled spring steel and ground tips called Team EDS. Team EDS wrenches were priced about half of what the Hudys were and much closer to the cost of most of the other die cast sets that I had used before so i decided to give them a try and bought a 4 piece metric set. When I first got them I compared them to my Hudys and the tips themselves were pretty much indistinguishable from the Hudy tips. I even read in one forum that they were made in the same factory as the Hudys were. I dont know if thats true but I couldnt tell the difference in them other than the handles being a bit different. Fast forward to 10-12 years later and not only is my original 4 piece metric set in near mint condition but I own probably 85+% of Team EDS's entire line of hand tools.

Everything with the red aluminum handles and the circled 1/4inch driver bit are all Team EDS
20211009_113757.jpg


Everything in the white 3D printed holder including 1/4 inch bits and turnbuckle wrenches are all Team EDS
20211009_113826.jpg


and can't forget these two guys off by their lonesome in the corner of my pegboard. You used to be able to get them with custom engraving on the handles but they dont offer that anymore. :(
20211009_113806.jpg


All that being said I've never looked back from Team EDS so I havent tried MIP, Wiha, or Bondhus even though I've always heard they are quality tools.


What don’t you like ?
i dont like die cast tips, rubber handles, or T shaped handles although those last 2 or just a personal preference of mine.

Who makes the best sets? Can they provide replacement blades?
The only 2 quality manufacturers I have first hand experience with is Hudy and Team EDS and they both have repalcement tips you can buy.

Can you use a grinder and reshape the tip so they can be used after there damaged?
I wouldnt think so because even if you had the ability to precision grind them youd have to take off material and then you would lose your tolerence for a snug and proper fit in the allen head. That being said I'm no expert in metalworking. Just an educated guess on my part.

When do you replace the tips?
when they start to get rounded but the only time I've ever had to replace tips on quality tools was when I broke two 1.5mm wrench tips trying to break red loctite free on a chassis brace.

And then there is the Allen bolts themselves.
Where do you get them?

My first go to is
https://www.microfasteners.com/

Second go to is
https://www.rtlfasteners.com/RC/r2.html

If I have to keep looking my next two stops are these
https://www.boltdepot.com/Default.aspx
and
https://www.mcmaster.com/

How do you sort and store them?
20210827_183918.jpg

20210827_183950.jpg



Are stainless better than black steel.
The only good thong about SS screws is they dont rust or corrode but I dont use them because they are much softer than the alloy steel screws.

Is titanium worth the price?
Dunno, never used them.
 
Last edited:
Stainless screws will still corrode if inserted into aluminum. Aluminum will oxidize when in contact with any other metal, which is why you have to use anti-seize in aluminum fittings. So the only reason to use stainless fasteners is to prevent the heads from rusting, or in food grade appliances and fixtures.

And to answer the grinding of tips, any time you grind on a hardened tool, you will risk losing the tempering of the tool, basically reverting it back to unhardened steel.

And they don't cast driver tips unless they do that in China? Never seen such a thing. Tips that break that have a porous look to the metal may appear to be cast, but it is just what happens during the hardening process. Improperly hardened (ie cheap) tools will have a more porous look to the metal when it breaks. This makes them brittle, similar to a piece of cast metal.
 
Last edited:
As for tools and wrenches. I use all different tools. The mips are very nice and well worth the $$. I don't have them. Because you can get the same style as mips for less$$. You want to look for steel , spring rolled steel, or titanium. Nothing less. It's all up you what you can afford. I have steel ball hex drivers for 15yrs work get BONDHUS steel drivers. Have hobbyparks titanium drivers. ED'S hex driver are as good if not better then mip and cheaper.

As for power drivers. I can't say nothing bad about the new
DEWALT 8V CORDLESS SCREW DRIVER WITH CLUTCH. which haven a clutch is very important. And this one is gyroscope operating system is just awesome IMHO.. a turn of your wrist that's all it takes. For around 100$ get tool battery and charger. And can be used in two different styles. Straight or as a gun type...
 

Attachments

  • 16337954235473202243079622556641.jpg
    16337954235473202243079622556641.jpg
    162.1 KB · Views: 50
  • 16337954771365660880185922341370.jpg
    16337954771365660880185922341370.jpg
    284.3 KB · Views: 53
  • 16337955756809056908487674140853.jpg
    16337955756809056908487674140853.jpg
    168.4 KB · Views: 52
  • 16337956758932092952153833381841.jpg
    16337956758932092952153833381841.jpg
    146.5 KB · Views: 47
Stainless screws will still corrode if inserted into aluminum.
This is true. I should have remembered that cuz I once messed up two tire air pressure sensors because I didnt know not to use aluminum valve caps on the valve stems. $5 set of caps cost me clsoe to $100 in sensors O__o
And to answer the grinding of tips, any time you grind on a hardened tool, you will risk losing the tempering of the tool, basically reverting it back to unhardened steel.
Didnt know that, Interesting
And they don't cast driver tips unless they do that in China? Never seen such a thing.
Well I'm no expert so I dont know what the typical average wrench is made out of or how its formed but I do know that its crap comapred to rolled spring steel.
Tips that break that have a porous look to the metal may appear to be cast, but it is just what happens during the hardening process. Improperly hardened (ie cheap) tools will have a more porous look to the metal when it breaks. This makes them brittle, similar to a piece of cast metal.
When I said i broke them I misspoke. i didnt mean I snapped them in half, I just meant that I ruined them.



Out of curiosity what are these type of tips made of and how are they formed? or best guess? I've always referred to them as die cast but only cuz I had to guess what they were.
dyn2904.jpg

agnhz024.jpg
 
Last edited:
Ok mip is the best . I started out with a set of allen wrenchs.. purchased some old screw drivers from a garage sale( 1978 ish). the ground the tips off then brazed the long end of a allen wrench to that
I still have that set today used 90% of the time.. it take alot of heat to change a metals structure to make it soft again. I have a hand crank grinding wheel thats 2000 grit and I know that will do the job without changing molecular structure of a tool tip
anti seize is always best when you have 2 different metals-I always use it
 
Out of curiosity what are these type of tips made of and how are they formed? or best guess?
View attachment 134705
View attachment 134706
All quality tools will be made out of various grades of tool steel. Spring steel is just a a bit lower carbon (softer) steel with a lower Rockwell hardness (different hardening process as well).

Hardness is what prevents a tool from wearing. So a lower carbon steel will wear more than a higher carbon steel.

It is a balancing act with making thin driver bits between carbon content and hardness. Too hard and they will snap. Too soft and they will wear out.

I have no real idea what Bondhus, Allen, and other brands are, but they all have to be some form of spring steel, otherwise they would break too easily. Especially the little 1/32" allens for example. They will bend a long way before they break (which hurts like hell !!!), but spring back into shape when you relieve the pressure on them.

The best allen wrench I ever had I made out of 718 Inconel. It was a 5/8" that was probably worth about $500 in scrap metal prices lol.
 
All quality tools will be made out of various grades of tool steel. Spring steel is just a a bit lower carbon (softer) steel with a lower Rockwell hardness (different hardening process as well).

Hardness is what prevents a tool from wearing. So a lower carbon steel will wear more than a higher carbon steel.

It is a balancing act with making thin driver bits between carbon content and hardness. Too hard and they will snap. Too soft and they will wear out.

I have no real idea what Bondhus, Allen, and other brands are, but they all have to be some form of spring steel, otherwise they would break too easily. Especially the little 1/32" allens for example. They will bend a long way before they break (which hurts like hell !!!), but spring back into shape when you relieve the pressure on them.

The best allen wrench I ever had I made out of 718 Inconel. It was a 5/8" that was probably worth about $500 in scrap metal prices lol.
Thats pretty interesting. I wasn't aware of any of that. Whatever those types are made of that I was calling die cast must be some pretty low grade tool steel cuz they dont hold up very well at all.

So what does rolling the spring steel do for the metal? Now I'm curious about that part of the manufacturering process.

IDK what Iconel is but it sounds good and expensive :)
 
And they don't cast driver tips unless they do that in China? Never seen such a thing
I've never seen this before either. And casting tools has got to be the worst idea or way to make tools ever. I break cast fittings all the time at work. Just the littlest bit of over tighten will break them. Or you can break cast by hitting it with a hammer. Cast tools would be horrible
Thats pretty interesting. I wasn't aware of any of that. Whatever those types are made of that I was calling die cast must be some pretty low grade tool steel cuz they dont hold up very well at all.

So what does rolling the spring steel do for the metal? Now I'm curious about that part of the manufacturering process.

IDK what Iconel is but it sounds good and expensive :)
Here you can read this it's a pretty interesting read

https://www.generalkinematics.com/blog/cold-rolled-steel-vs-hot-rolled-steel/
 
I have no real idea what Bondhus
It's a manufacturer not a type of steel. They use protanium high tourqe steel. ?? No clue but I have had this set since early 2000's. Lost a couple while moving. But the ball hexes are still in great shape. Are the amount of use I've done with them..
I have the set of hand drivers 1.5, 2.0 and 2.5mm👍🏼 need to order some bits though too as have went to using a drill when I can.
Does the drill have a clutch? The clutch is key to using a power drill.. Be careful using Just a drill. You can easily strip or melt the plastic threads in parts. If you go to fast.. I've done it before my self Just a heads up. That's why I went out and got the dewalt gyro driver. It goes so slow if needed. Should take a look at the dewalt driver I posted above. It's truly a awesome power driver to use on RC cars.👍👍
 

Attachments

  • 16338001491511220611677408472840.jpg
    16338001491511220611677408472840.jpg
    85.1 KB · Views: 45
  • 16338001657576875659221266417077.jpg
    16338001657576875659221266417077.jpg
    80.5 KB · Views: 40
Last edited:
It's a manufacturer not a type of steel. They use protanium high tourqe steel. ??

Yeah, I know Bondhus is a tool manufacturer. I have a set of their allen wrenches that have probably installed and removed 10,000+ screws.

But Protanium? That's not an industry recognized tool steel. It is just a name Bondhus slapped on an alloy they came up with, likely blending Titanium and tool steel, hence the catchy name 😉

Titanium is springy. So that would allow them to harden the tool more, and keep it's flexibility.

So what does rolling the spring steel do for the metal? Now I'm curious about that part of the manufacturering process.

IDK what Iconel is but it sounds good and expensive :)

Rolling the steel compresses the molecules, like forging does on all forged tools. Remember Crafstman having the drop forged embossing on their tools? Not sure if they still do?

They run the material between two or more rollers that have multiple tons of force and squish it basically 😉

Or they take the raw block of material and hammer it under a very heavy die with tons of force from a press.

As for grinding your tool tips down, yes, you can grind them. But if you see the tool turn red, you are taking the temper out of the tool for sure. It is best to use a flat file to cut any worn tips down.
 
Last edited:
How do you sort and store them?
Whith all the hardware and electrical items and small parts and what not. I just use storage organizers. Which I usually pick up from harbor freight. Got one for screws and hardware. One for soldering/ connectors, wire, heartstrings. And others for nitro engine parts. And others for servos recivers/electronics. Also a big fan of the pegboard..still need to put up the other two blue ones I got the other day...
Yeah, I know Bondhus is a tool manufacturer. I have a set of their allen wrenches that have probably installed and removed 10,000+ screws.

But Protanium? That's not an industry recognized tool steel. It is just a name Bondhus slapped on an alloy they came up with, likely blending Titanium and tool steel, hence the catchy name 😉

Titanium is springy. So that would allow them to harden the tool more, and keep it's flexibility.



Rolling the steel compresses the molecules, like forging does on all forged tools. Remember Crafstman having the drop forged embossing on their tools? Not sure if they still do?

They run the material between two or more rollers that have multiple tons of force and squish it basically 😉

Or they take the raw block of material and hammer it under a very heavy die with tons of force from a press.

As for grinding your tool tips down, yes, you can grind them. But if you see the tool turn red, you are taking the temper out of the tool for sure. It is best to use a flat file to cut any worn tips down.

But Protanium? That's not an industry recognized tool steel. It is just a name Bondhus slapped on an alloy they came up with, likely blending Titanium and tool steel, hence the catchy name
Yeah that's why I said no clue. As I've never heard of it. Figured you would know. I just saw the steel yrs ago. And that's what sold me. Plus I think the 20 price tag for the set from 1.27 - 5mm.. its done the job can't complain about them.. to be honest surprised the ball tips have held up 👍👍
 

Attachments

  • 16338027897497710985501264287215.jpg
    16338027897497710985501264287215.jpg
    244.7 KB · Views: 51
  • 16338027558195045161882826135956.jpg
    16338027558195045161882826135956.jpg
    202.2 KB · Views: 47
  • 16338027375522744074860791211534.jpg
    16338027375522744074860791211534.jpg
    238.3 KB · Views: 45
  • 16338027236976585569348731495588.jpg
    16338027236976585569348731495588.jpg
    156.5 KB · Views: 46
  • 16338021727727446864023231042861.jpg
    16338021727727446864023231042861.jpg
    238.4 KB · Views: 52
  • 16338028501471555335678097503247.jpg
    16338028501471555335678097503247.jpg
    163.4 KB · Views: 47
Last edited:
I've never seen this before either. And casting tools has got to be the worst idea or way to make tools ever. I break cast fittings all the time at work. Just the littlest bit of over tighten will break them. Or you can break cast by hitting it with a hammer. Cast tools would be horrible

Here you can read this it's a pretty interesting read

https://www.generalkinematics.com/blog/cold-rolled-steel-vs-hot-rolled-steel/
Thanks for the link. Ill give that a read when I get some down time.

Rolling the steel compresses the molecules, like forging does on all forged tools. Remember Crafstman having the drop forged embossing on their tools? Not sure if they still do?

They run the material between two or more rollers that have multiple tons of force and squish it basically 😉

Or they take the raw block of material and hammer it under a very heavy die with tons of force from a press.
So am I understanding right then that rolling it is a form of hardening? So rolled spring steel is a combination of hardening from the rolling but not making it brittle because you're using spring steel?
 
So am I understanding right then that rolling it is a form of hardening? So rolled spring steel is a combination of hardening from the rolling but not making it brittle because you're using spring steel?
Rolling it makes the metal denser, so it makes it a stronger tool.
 
It's a manufacturer not a type of steel. They use protanium high tourqe steel. ?? No clue but I have had this set since early 2000's. Lost a couple while moving. But the ball hexes are still in great shape. Are the amount of use I've done with them..

Does the drill have a clutch? The clutch is key to using a power drill.. Be careful using Just a drill. You can easily strip or melt the plastic threads in parts. If you go to fast.. I've done it before my self Just a heads up. That's why I went out and got the dewalt gyro driver. It goes so slow if needed. Should take a look at the dewalt driver I posted above. It's truly a awesome power driver to use on RC cars.👍👍
Ya I've got a Dewalt and been doing it a long while lol so no stripped anything👍🏼
 

Similar threads

Stewart.R.C.Concepts
Replies
2
Views
628
Stewart.R.C.Concepts
Stewart.R.C.Concepts
RustyUs
Replies
4
Views
832
WickedFog
WickedFog
L
Replies
30
Views
2K
thatcraig
thatcraig
Back
Top