Confused on Hot Racing spring rates vs Traxxas springs

[corneileous]

Last year I had bought a set of complete shocks and springs for my Revo 3.3 from Hot Racing. What I’m trying to figure out is how the spring rates of those springs compare to the Traxxas GTR springs.

Well, the springs I’m currently using on my Revo with the Traxxas GTR shocks is the tan springs on the back which is 23.4 lb/in (4.1 N/mm) and the little bit lighter gold springs in the front which are 21.7 lb/in (3.8 N/mm) and according to Hot Racing’s description of the shocks on their site, these shocks come with two sets of springs; some chrome ones and some
blue ones. When I was using these shocks, I had the chrome ones on the back and the blue ones on the front because according to HR, the chrome stiff springs are a 6.8lb rate and the blue medium springs are a 4.2lb rate. That’s all they say except for saying that the chrome springs are a 7-coil with 2mm wire and the blue springs are an 8-coil with 2mm wire. I’m assuming the wire used for the Traxxas springs is 2mm or damn close to it because they look the same and if I’m counting the coils right, my Traxxas springs are both an 8-coil but since Traxxas uses “lb/in” and HR just says “lbs”, how do I compare the two for how much weight it takes to compress each spring?

 

[tntpoof]

only real way I have found how to compare a said spring rate is with a spring rate tester I have a kind of older 1 by reedy its in lbs.(1993 ish I think)

 

[corneileous]

You’re probably right, that is probably the better way but when Traxxas says a spring is 23 lb/in, what are they saying? Inch pounds as vs pounds, or what? Is this spring a 23 pound spring, or what? Hot Racing says their springs are only 6.8 pounds but it sure seems to me that it takes a lot more than just 6.8 pounds to compress these springs but I don’t think it takes 23 pounds to compress the Traxxas springs and the HR springs are heavier than the Traxxas springs.

 

[D3MON]

spring weight is measured by inch/lbs standard for RCs, that means for every inch of compression, it will take that many pounds of force to compress that spring one inch.

 

[corneileous]

spring weight is measured by inch/lbs standard for RCs, that means for every inch of compression, it will take that many pounds of force to compress that spring one inch.

Ok so, when hot racing says what they did about their springs in my opening post, what does that mean? That actually makes sense for the Traxxas springs but given the information on the HR springs, what does that translate to?

 

[corneileous]

Anybody? I haven’t yet done a side-by-side comparison test between those blue and the chrome hot racing springs next to my current Traxxas springs but I guess I might try that this weekend only because I have a new set of shock mounts to attach to the chassis and while I have the shocks off, I might just go ahead and guess how much stiffer the hot racing springs are to the Traxxas ones because I’ve really been thinking about using the hot racing springs on my Traxxas shocks just see how they work only because the hot racing springs or longer. Even with keeping the stock pistons in the front and rear shocks and using 50 weight shock oil in all for, the springs that I’m currently using just feel like they’re still way too soft.

 

[tntpoof]

lbs and lbs/inch are the same.. 7 is 7 .

 

[corneileous]

lbs and lbs/inch are the same.. 7 is 7 .

Ok so, hot racing says their springs are 6.8lbs for the chrome ones and 4.2lbs for the blue ones and Traxxas says the tan and the gold springs I’m currently using are 23.4lbs/in and 21.7lbs/in....

Due to the response from another member on explaining the Traxxas springs, I think I kind of understand that but how do I interpret what the hot racing springs are since they just say 6.8 and 4.2 pounds? How does that translate or equal what Traxxas says their springs are? I don’t know the difference between 23.4 inch pounds and 6.8 pounds.

 

[olds97_lss]

Well, a very rudimentary way would be to get a scale and press them down about half way and compare what you get. Either the HR rating is way off, or they are way soft for a revo and more for a jato (both use the same shocks, not sure about pistons though).

Jato spring chart:

Revo spring chart:

If they are that soft, you would feel that in your hand when compressing as they would be way less than half of what you have now.

 

[corneileous]

LS, I’m pretty sure the hot racing springs are a little bit stiffer than the Traxxas springs but I’ll know for sure tomorrow when I go to replace my shock mounts.

As far as whether or not the hot racing spring’s ratings are off, I have no idea because I don’t even know what it is they’re trying to tell me when they say in their description that one is 6.8 pounds and the other one is 4.2. I can’t stress that part enough because that’s what I’m asking for help on is trying to figure out what that means. I’d really rather not spend money on a spring gauge because to me, that’s just something that a racer would buy and since I’m not a racer, I just want to decipher what hot racing is trying to tell me when they rate their springs.

 

[olds97_lss]

Are these the shocks?
https://hot-racing.com/?partnumber=RVO128X06;c=1294

If you search for the silver springs (which I think I'm finding different ones), they list out the available revo springs:
https://hot-racing.com/?partnumber=RVO5095;c=443
- RVO5105 - Yellow, 13 lb/in
- RVO5095 - chrome, 15 lb/in
- RVO5090 - Red, 16 lb/in
- RVO5085 - Purple, 17 lb/in
- RVO5080 - Blue, 18 lb/in
- RVO5075 - Gold, 19 lb/in

If I look for jato springs, I find them around (if not the same) weight as the ones included with the "revo" shocks. I'm guessing they just have the info mislabeled on the site with those shocks.

 

[corneileous]

Are these the shocks?
https://hot-racing.com/?partnumber=RVO128X06;c=1294

If you search for the silver springs (which I think I'm finding different ones), they list out the available revo springs:
https://hot-racing.com/?partnumber=RVO5095;c=443
- RVO5105 - Yellow, 13 lb/in
- RVO5095 - chrome, 15 lb/in
- RVO5090 - Red, 16 lb/in
- RVO5085 - Purple, 17 lb/in
- RVO5080 - Blue, 18 lb/in
- RVO5075 - Gold, 19 lb/in

If I look for jato springs, I find them around (if not the same) weight as the ones included with the "revo" shocks. I'm guessing they just have the info mislabeled on the site with those shocks.

Yes, that first web link you posted is the springs that I’m talking about that came preinstalled on those shocks.
But yeah, that is awful interesting about those other springs on that other web link you posted and if that’s the case, even that RVO5075 is even lesser of the spring than what I’ve got on there now which is weird because I do remember right after I bought those new hot racing shocks that when I was filling them with oil for the first time, tthe springs that came with them did feel a little bit stiffer than the Traxxas springs and even though the Pistons aren’t the same in the hot racing shocks, even when they were on the truck, they still felt a whole lot stiffer than that the Traxxas ones did.

But I don’t know, if those springs don’t work out, is it true that we can use the supplied long travel springs that come with the truck brand new without having to use all the other stuff with the long travel kit?

I don’t know, I just feel that with the little bit heavier weight from my new body and the much heavier 6.3 inch Talon EXT tires and heavier wheels that have those screw-on wheel protectors that even the current gold and tan springs that I have on my truck is just too weak of a spring.. I did however remove the wing off the back so that took away some weight.

 

[olds97_lss]

You can use the LT springs, just make sure the retainers aren't screwed down so far that the spring bottoms out before the shock/suspension does.

Tire weight won't affect spring/shock weight much, that's "unspring" weight, which means it's not supported by the suspension. The tire weight won't go unnoticed in handling and esc/motor temps though.

 

[tntpoof]

ok simple math is sometimes really hard. 23 is way more that 6 almost 4x so it takes 4x the weight coming down to compress the larger # spring

 

[corneileous]

ok simple math is sometimes really hard. 23 is way more that 6 almost 4x so it takes 4x the weight coming down to compress the larger # spring

So pretty much what you’re saying is that hot racing is pretty much saying these two springs that I have that are 6.8 pounds and 4.2 pounds that they’re really saying they are 6.8 pounds inch and 4.2 pounds inch? How can that even be because as I’ve already stated, the very first time I messed with these new shocks, the springs felt stiffer than The Traxxas ones but who knows, I think instead of trying to figure out how to decipher these hot racing springs, I think I’m just gonna give these long travel springs that came with my Revo a try and see how they do and maybe I can accomplish the same ride I have now but without having to run the preload collars so far down.

 

[corneileous]

You can use the LT springs, just make sure the retainers aren't screwed down so far that the spring bottoms out before the shock/suspension does.

Tire weight won't affect spring/shock weight much, that's "unspring" weight, which means it's not supported by the suspension. The tire weight won't go unnoticed in handling and esc/motor temps though.

Well no it’s not supported by the suspension but I figured that a heavy tire and wheel combo would help work the suspension a lot more than a lighter tire and wheel combo would…

 

[olds97_lss]

Well no it’s not supported by the suspension but I figured that a heavy tire and wheel combo would help work the suspension a lot more than a lighter tire and wheel combo would…

Heavier tires makes the truck feel sluggish, but I didn't notice much difference as to how the suspension reacted when changing from heavy to light tires.

Depending on the tires your changing, if the OD differs much, that will affect the suspension because larger OD will compress the shocks more and if not setup right, break them, the ends or the shafts. If they are smaller OD, then less of your shock will be used and it will bottom out harder.

I ran into both of those issues on my revo's when going from traxxas tires to trencher 3.8's to traxxas ext's. The first time I ran trenchers, I broke one of the rear shock shafts off... I had it set too tall and didn't adjust for the taller tire. So the shock bottomed out before the truck. Then later, when I got a set of the ext tires, I didn't change anything and it bottomed out a lot harder than before after I had it setup to run trenchers.

But going from the old v1 talons (9.1oz) to the trencher 3.8s (13.4oz), the only thing I really notice was how it reacted in the air so different to throttle inputs.

Had a similar experience when I went from 3.8 trenchers to backflips )12.5oz) on my outcast. It takes way more throttle to rotate in the air with backflips than trenchers, but I also have far fewer diff problems with backflips. Surprised how just under 1oz was so noticeable.

 

[olds97_lss]

In the end on the revo, I went back to wrapped 3.8 trenchers. The ext's were too low profile and the revo already bottoms out hard. With smaller OD tires, it was worse. Also, the forward bite was horrible in grass with those tires. The thing spun a lot and fishtailed all over the place. I really had to mash the throttle to get a wheelie out of it. I did like the stability the extra width gave me though as the ext's are 1/2" offset. So I got some HR 1/2" offset hubs and put the trenchers back on.

I'll likely get a second set of backflips for it. I really like those on my outcast. Lots of grip, easier on the motor/esc/diffs, but still a lot of sidewall to absorb impacts. Less weight for the arms to put up with as well.

If I do get a set for it and run at a skate park, I'll put trenchers back on as there's a lot more contact patch with those. I can't imagine backflips would hold up nearly as long on concrete, especially the rough concrete my skate park has.

 

[corneileous]

Heavier tires makes the truck feel sluggish, but I didn't notice much difference as to how the suspension reacted when changing from heavy to light tires.

Depending on the tires your changing, if the OD differs much, that will affect the suspension because larger OD will compress the shocks more and if not setup right, break them, the ends or the shafts. If they are smaller OD, then less of your shock will be used and it will bottom out harder.

I ran into both of those issues on my revo's when going from traxxas tires to trencher 3.8's to traxxas ext's. The first time I ran trenchers, I broke one of the rear shock shafts off... I had it set too tall and didn't adjust for the taller tire. So the shock bottomed out before the truck. Then later, when I got a set of the ext tires, I didn't change anything and it bottomed out a lot harder than before after I had it setup to run trenchers.

But going from the old v1 talons (9.1oz) to the trencher 3.8s (13.4oz), the only thing I really notice was how it reacted in the air so different to throttle inputs.

Had a similar experience when I went from 3.8 trenchers to backflips )12.5oz) on my outcast. It takes way more throttle to rotate in the air with backflips than trenchers, but I also have far fewer diff problems with backflips. Surprised how just under 1oz was so noticeable.

Interesting.

So far, my current suspension set up seems to be pretty good at absorbing small jumps but I do notice that I have quite a bit of body roll whenever I go to make tight turns that even though I haven’t really rolled the truck that much, the body does roll quite a bit to the point to where like say if I am making a really tight left hand turn, the body will roll so much that the left rear tire kind of comes off the ground a little bit so I don’t know if that means my suspension is not stiff enough or what but like I said earlier, I’m only running 50 weight oil in the front and rear with the factory original number one pistons upfront and the number two pistons in the back.

The rear preload collars are cranked down quite a bit, almost to the end of the thread and the front collars are cranked down almost as far as the back which is where I had to set it at so that when the car is sitting on the concrete, the axles are fairly straight but with a slight little upward angle.

At one point, since I have the hot racing aluminum suspension rockers, I tried to run the pushrods bolted to the same outer hole as they were on the front but that seemed to make the back of the truck too high so I returned it to where it was when I originally put them on which was the inner hole that I actually matched the spacing of the stock rear plastic P2 rockers.

 

[corneileous]

In the end on the revo, I went back to wrapped 3.8 trenchers. The ext's were too low profile and the revo already bottoms out hard. With smaller OD tires, it was worse. Also, the forward bite was horrible in grass with those tires. The thing spun a lot and fishtailed all over the place. I really had to mash the throttle to get a wheelie out of it. I did like the stability the extra width gave me though as the ext's are 1/2" offset. So I got some HR 1/2" offset hubs and put the trenchers back on.

I'll likely get a second set of backflips for it. I really like those on my outcast. Lots of grip, easier on the motor/esc/diffs, but still a lot of sidewall to absorb impacts. Less weight for the arms to put up with as well.

If I do get a set for it and run at a skate park, I'll put trenchers back on as there's a lot more contact patch with those. I can't imagine backflips would hold up nearly as long on concrete, especially the rough concrete my skate park has.

Hmmm. You must be talking about those 3.8 trencher‘s that are like 6.8 or 6.9 inches tall that are like 4 inches wide, that are pretty much the same size as those Duratraxx six pack MTs that I tried last year that I quickly got rid of because of how large they were and because of the fact that if I had learned what I know now about re-gearing the clutch bell gear and the spur gear which, if I would’ve known then what I know now, I probably would’ve kept those tires and probably wouldn’t have even bought the 6.4 inch talon EXTs.

Which, don’t get me wrong, I really like talon EXTs for what they are but the only thing that I’m not crazy about them is the fact that they’re so heavy because they’re obviously made out of a lot thicker rubber being that these tires were made for the E Revo 2.0 that’s capable of hitting 70+ miles an hour… LOL.

But just despite how heavy they are, I really like them though. Hard accelerations in grass, I don’t get that fishtailing affect like you were saying.

and someways, now that I know what I know, I wouldn’t mind going back to those printers trenchers or maybe even the pro lines that had the same tread pattern almost as the Dura tracks MTs but then I wouldn’t have anything to use these talons for because even though my max runs pretty good on those tires, I still think that they’re just too large of a tire for that truck that’s why they pretty much just stay on my Revo.